Setting of the Sun, St Anthony Head, on the Roseland Peninsula – South Cornwall, December 2012

Leni Farrer – warrior for the disabled and the poor; extreme pacifist; extreme pessimist; extreme hyperbolist.

In part one I looked at Leni’s commitment to the struggle against poverty, which in terms of her commenting history was one of her greatest concerns. In this part I’ll deal with other issues that she frequently wrote about.

Disability

Given the health problems she suffered all of her life, it is small wonder that disabled people and disability were Leni Farrer’s main concern, and in her posts she mentions them over 1100 times. Having made that observation, it is worth recording that she also “worked with abused children all of her life”. (Ideas for 1-2 June.02 Jun 2012 8:09pm)

But her posts are almost exclusively pessimistic. I struggled to discover one positive or optimistic quote about disability or disabled people, this one being the closest I could find:

“The arguments around disabled people working are rather muddied by the fact that there are too few jobs in our economy. Being able to work does not guarantee a job. This has to be admitted. Steven Hawkins (sic) is not a typical example – though he is often used as one.”

from: Making the disabled wait for support is cruel.20 Jul 2011 3:27pm

Yet even here it isn’t the amazing achievements of Hawkin and the scientists who have made his working life possible that is being celebrated, along with the millions of other disabled people who are part of the UK’s workforce. Rather they are used as a stick with which to beat the Government, any government, because, as she goes on to say as an alibi for her pessimism, some able bodied science graduates are unemployed. Even in the year of the London Olympics which she variously described as a farce, a fiasco and a waste of money, the only thing she could say about the UK’s highly successful para-olympians was that after so many years dedicated training, they should boycott the games to protest about ATOS.

“I have long since lost any interest in huge international sporting events. Corporate money , greed and in some cases corruption seem to be inextricably interlinked with all sports – with posturing athletes adding to my irritation.”

from: Compared with a lootfest like London or Beijing, Delhi is just an also-ran.24 Sep 2010 3:27am

All sports?

“I would like to see disabled athletes showing some solidarity with ATOS victims. They may in fact become victims themselves once the show is over.”  

“How many years have the athletes trained for this ? How differnt are they from able-bodied athletes ? Not at all.”

“I would have liked to see the full Olympic team refusing to participate in supportof the disabled people and against ATOS – and in protest against a high prestige project being paid for from public funds while people here go hungry.

It won’t happen though.”

from: Paralympians deserve our support despite Atos sponsorship of the Games.22 May 2012 6:34pm

Eugenics

And if pessimism loomed large where Leni was concerned, it was her use of hyperbole where she became least credible. She wrote on the thread to “Our children go hungry for want of Tory compassion.09 Sep 2012 3:25am”

“Yes it is eugenics – we have to start making this clear.”

and

“Couching their defence of these policies in terms of deficit reduction or national debt does not disguise the fact that they are supporting and promoting notions which are drawn from Malthus and the preachers of eugenics.”

From:  Why not pay welfare in cash?.25 Jul 2010 2:03pm

and

“cameron’s speech seems odd and out of context in a way – ‘cept that it looks like the start of a three year election propaganda campaign . Smacks heavily of building eugenics type hatred.”

From:  Ideas for 29 June – 2 July.30 Jun 2012 12:09am

and

There is no doubt at all that this gvt has instituted a policy of social eugenics - backed up by propaganda and lies. Punitive policies towards sick/disabled people are nothing new – we have seen them in the past and know where they can lead.

From:  The coalition’s reforms will make the benefits system work better.21 Jun 2012 6:10pm

Such was her obsession with eugenics that she wrote about it in this way 36 times. Not once did her comparisons match the reality of the eugenics policies and programmes of past governments and sadly they were a denial of the celebration of disability that events like the Para-Olympics represent.

Living Wage and Minimum Wage

The introduction of the Minimum Wage was probably one of the greatest achievements of the Blair -Brown governments especially as its main beneficiaries were working women and low paid workers in general. Leni mentions it 42 times but almost always from a negative perspective.

The minimum wage is a subsidy – through the benefits system – to employers. The minimum wage should be raised to a level which supports the worker and their family in dignity and security.

From:  The welfare state, RIP.17 Oct 2010 4:33pm

This admirable sentiment and that in the following quote is the closest I could find to something positive or optimistic:

“Carers and children both are entitled to feel secure. Parents who are full time carers need a break – in exactly the same way as any body else who works full time. Caring should be regarded as employment -it should be paid at least the minimum wage and the carer should be entitled to holidays and other employment safeguards.”

From: Carers need a break, too.10 Jan 2012 4:25pm

According to the 2011 census, across England and Wales there are now a staggering 2.1 million people providing over 20 hours of care a week. This alone would mean a wage bill approaching £260 million. Whether or not Leni was aware of the enormity of this unpaid contribution to those in need of care, she made no suggestion of what such a payment might cost and how it might be financed.

The Living Wage she mentions 37 times, although nowhere does she define what it is. She says in one post that those who are working “should be paid a living wage and not rely on top ups”, by which she meant benefits like tax credits, housing benefits, free school meals and so on.

From:  Benefits should allow disabled people to live, not just survive.28 Sep 2011 3:28pm

In 2012 the trade union Unison defined the London Living Wage as £8.30 an hour or £17,264pa. This would certainly attract what Leni called “top ups” and as such her “living wage” would be higher. This approach to economics and finance, while emotionally attractive was so typical of her un-costed demand for social reform and doubtless was one of the things that made her so popular with her following of CiF readers. At times she came up with the right questions, but then failed to provide her readers with any answers.

“I have been looking at some reports from the 1920s – average earnings and cost of basics. got me to wondering – assuming the minimum wage as the base line – how long do people in various sectors have to work to earn the price of a loaf of bread, a family sized chicken or the cost of heating their house for an hour ?”

From:  Ideas for 3-6 August.03 Aug 2012 6:09pm

She didn’t provide any figures, but to suggest that the poverty experienced by millions in the 1920s is comparable to Britain in 2012, or that life within Britain’s Welfare State is in anyway similar to the one before it existed, is hardly the stuff of serious debate.

Investment

Thoughout her time on CiF Leni supported increased investment in education, training, support for disabled people, for job creation, regional development, a living wage, facilities for young people, a vastly improved health service and so on. She mentions investment 137 times. Yet not once does she suggest how this investment might be financed. Probably the closest she came was with:

“a fairer distribution of wealth and some realistic job creation along with a guaranteed living wage if you really want improvements all round.”

and

“Investment is essential – this can come only from increasing taxes on the rich and on the big banks and companies.

From:  ” The universal credit programme is on course for disaster.11 Sep 2012 1:12am

There is nothing inherently wrong with such idealism and a lot to recommend it, but to be taken seriously, it needs to be accompanied by something on how such a multi-billion pound investment programme would be financed. Before I finish on a lighter note, let me visit some other areas where Leni expressed her concerns and opinions.

Peace

Can we have something on why negative, hateful and alienating rhetoric seems to be more effective than pro peace and pro inclusion – so often dismissed as ’bleeding heart looney leftism’ ?

From:  What do you want to talk about?.02 Sep 2011 12:21pm

Blame

We can list a string of names responsible for cruelty and terror – and sometimes indifference to the fate of others – but simply playing the blame game solves nothing .

From:  Ideas for 1-4 March.01 Mar 2013 11:16pm

Slave / slavery / enslavement

take away all self reliance, dictate exactly which items of food they may or may not eat, stigmatise them (may as well brand them on the forehead) and completely tke away choice around such basics as food and you force them into dependency, obedience and servility. To be able to eat – or not – at the whim of a system, be it economic or political – is enslavement.

From:  Why not pay welfare in cash?.25 Jul 2010 2:03pm

Labour Party and the Trade Unions

Neither Labour nor the Unions are worth anything to us anymore .

From:  Disabled people listened to on welfare plans? It’s a government sham.09 Jan 2012 3:52am

The internet – which gives us CiF and 38 Degrees

the biggest disappointment of the internet is that despite all its power – all the contributions, the posting and opinion pieces it has failed to change anything for the better – all , as you say, rising into the atmosphere as so much hot air .

From:  Ideas for 21-22 September.23 Sep 2012 5:22pm

Hermione Gingold

In recent months Leni became increasingly critical of the way the one line thoughtless comment was destroying CiF, yet she managed to respond 49 times to it’s most vacuous poster Hermione Gingold.

Leni must have had the patience of a saint.

Finally I said here and in part 1 that Leni was tolerant to the extreme, but at times even she was provoked into breaching the CiF community standards:

Do the decent thing – Jump.

From:  Steve Bell on Iain Duncan Smith – cartoon.20 Jun 2012 12:32am

You are a very silly Posh

From:  George Osborne: why I am committed to global tax reform.17 Feb 2013 1:52pm

sanctimonious claptrap

From:  Children of the poor will suffer most under Osborne’s benefits squeeze.20 Jan 2013 2:14pm

I sneaked a quick look at the Mackenator’s link – he looks like a child

From:  Ideas for 5-6 March.05 Mar 2013 12:27pm

Grow up will you.

From:  I left the Conservative party over its attacks on disabled people.19 Jan 2012 1:34am

Am I addressing the man or the parrot ?

From:  Welfare reform has us terrified’ – families facing the worst speak out.16 Jan 2012 11:55pm

Large creepy things masquerading as thinking , fully functional emotionally literate adult humans – I make an exception for . They may be removed – if fact the web of life would benefit from their extinction as a class.

From:  Ideas for 31 August – 3 September.01 Sep 2012 2:57pm

Of course I could have written much more on Leni Farrer’s prolific posting on Comment is Free but these are my personal views. Others will doubtless disagree with my choice but then they’ve always got the invitation from CiF’s editor should they wish to choose their own.

Counting beads, Laitan ancient village, Yunnan Province, China

Leni Farrer – warrior for the disabled and the poor; extreme pacifist; extreme pessimist; extreme hyperbolist.  part 1

It came as some surpirse to me, given all that her friends have said about her in the past few weeks, to discover that Leni Farrer had been seriousy ill for most of her life. She had from a young age, both diabetes and coeliac disease, conditions she shared with other members of her family.

Coeliac disease is common and affects 1 in 100 people, however only 10-15% are diagnosed. Diabetes is very common. In the UK and around 2.9 million people are affected. Around 850,000 people are also thought to have undiagnosed diabetes.

Coeliac disease is an autoimmune disease. Gluten, which is found in wheat, barley and rye triggers an immune reaction. This means that eating gluten damages the lining of the small intestine. Other parts of the body may be affected.

Type 1 diabetes is often referred to as insulin-dependent diabetes. It is also sometimes known as juvenile diabetes or early-onset diabetes because it often develops before the age of 40, usually during the teenage years. In type 1 diabetes, the pancreas (a small gland behind the stomach) does not produce any insulin. Insulin is a hormone that regulates blood glucose levels. If the amount of glucose in the blood is too high, it can seriously damage the body’s organs.

In all the tributes and comments I have read about Leni Farrer, not one has mentioned these aspects of her life.

In her CiF posts between December 2009 and her final post on 17 March 2013, she mentions diabetes 20 times and coeliac disease 52 times. It is a measure of how they dominated her life and determined to a large extent how she viewed the world. And it is no surprise that it should have been so.

So what was that view of the world?

I exchanged views with Leni a few times on CiF and the Untrusted site, of which she was a founder, albeit reluctant member, given the foul language, abuse, threats of violence and racism from some of its posters. But she was, as others have pointed out, amazingly tolerant of all kinds. And actually that is all many of them have pointed out, as if her entire purpose in life was to be tolerant to people. It wasn’t and Leni like the rest of us, had her moments.

Leni also posted a few times on my own site. but generally our paths didn’t cross. She posted a message on my site on 23 March to say that she was in hospital and to ask after one of the few people who posts on it. Then, shortly after, when she disclosed that she was in fact in a hospice, the seriousness of her situation became clear and I emailed her:

“I hope you are one of the considerable number of people who recover sufficiently to come out of your hospice and that you continue to use my site as a conduit, if that is what you need and want. I haven’t joined the online discussion about your situation, as doubtless you’ve noticed, for very good reasons. At times like this it seems to me that silence is the only option and hence this personal email.

Wishing you well, “

When a few days later she let it be known that she was leaving the hospice and returning home, it was also quite clear to me that she would not be with us for much longer, whatever optimism others might have expressed.

Her record

According to the Guardian’s records, Leni Farrer began contributing to CiF as afancdogge on 20 October 2007. Her posting record is impressive. Until the recent changes in the way user profiles are displayed, something about which Leni complained, it would have been relatively easy to have examined her entire posting history. However the changes mean that this article is limited to those posts she made since 24 December 2009. Before that she posted largely on Israel and Palestine. For these years I have selected some of the topics about which she most frequently posted in an attempt to demonstrate to those who thought they knew her, and clearly didn’t, what she was really like. If this shatters illusions, so be it.

Poverty

Poverty is mentioned 428 times in Leni’s posts and poor a further 447 times. There is no doubt that she was a passionate campaigner in support of the poor and against those she held responsible, both Labour and Coalition governments, for this state of affairs in the UK and internationally. Here she writes in 2010, 2011 and 2012

We have a massive job shortage, increasing poverty and disadvantage and a society which targets the weak and vulnerable. The income gap is at its widest for 40 years and the economy has collapsed.

from:  Disability tests in need of overhaul.09 Feb 2010 2:23pm

Food poverty is increasing here as elsewhere. This is a global problem and needs a global answer. The first step is the closing of the tax havens. This crisis was not created by the poor – it was created by Osbourne’s mates and cronies. Make them pay.

from:  The UK could be leading with a new economic approach, instead we follow.05 Jun 2011 12:09am

The day is not far off when we will have hundreds and then thousands of families on the streets. Already some are forced into 1 room in B+B with no cooking facilities beyond a kettle. Children are insecure – the protection any half way decent state gives to its children having been withdrawn. Is this not ‘News’? Current estimates are for 10 million to be living in poverty by 2013 – next year!  

from:  Social fund: shredding the ultimate safety net.23 Jan 2012 1:11am

Take any more from the poor and we will have in excess of 15 million dispossessed within 5 years. Cue social problems on a huge scale.

from:  Labour has been hiding behind child poverty for far too long.05 Jan 2012 2:39am

Once again Leni has resorted to hyperbole as the reality is somewhat different.

According to the charity End Child Poverty:

Nearly 4 million children are living in poverty in the UK (after housing costs) The proportion of children living in poverty grew from 1 in 10 in 1979 to 1 in 3 in 1998. Today, 30 per cent of children in Britain are living in poverty.

So what to do? And as always Leni says very little to address the question, other than “closing the tax havens”. Yet while this has the potential to collect vast amounts of currently avoided taxation, implementing the required measures are fraught with difficulties, as this from Bloomberg testifies. As such any short term measure to address the issue of child poverty must be through current direct and indirect taxation.

It was very easy to come up with the following fact which would resolve the problem of child poverty overnight:

In total a 1p increase in income tax rates would yield £5.32 billion per annum.

However, I very much doubt whether  using Leni Farrer’s tactics, the electorate could be convinced to support such a policy.

In part 2 I shall look at among other issues Leni’s views on Disability, Living Wage and Minimum Wage and Investment.

Also at breakfast on the road to Bingzhonglou, Yunnan Province, China. Another Leni appreciated.

Leni Farrer – afancdogge – a tribute

Leni Farrer  posted seriously and perceptively on Comment is Free for over five years, as afancdogge. To quote her from a post she made here - an afanc today is a beaver – in welsh mythology – a mysterious being dragged from lake bala – dogge is my rescue mongrel. dogge has love and heart.

She first visited this site on New Years Eve 2012 to send best wishes to  everyone, posted a couple of tunes on New Years Day and then returned again on 23 February to say “ What a sad site – and a sad sight too. To see a group of people all ganging together in this way to attack one person . I thought better of some of those among you I know”.  In this she was only the latest of the Untrusteds to visit here with a view to provoking a row.  Her misconception was politely corrected by those she had accused, although her sympathy with BeautifulBurnout , one of the Untrusted’s more abusive members, was clearly misplaced. (A search of the Guardian’s record fails to show that MrsB at any time replied to even one of Leni’s innumerable posts.)  Likewise her too mild criticism of the racist bully HankScorpio  - “i did pull Hank up on his racist remarks – only did it once as I felt I had made my point”.  

To me, not to condemn the use of the word “nigger” is the worst kind of cultural relativism.  Or to quote the Independent, ”Whether the words or behaviour are abusive or insulting is an objective matter; it does not depend on whether the alleged offender intended his words to be abusive or insulting.” Had I made that remark we’d never have heard the end of it.

The exchange of views that went on over the next two days and her defence of some of those who inhabit the Untrusted site showed a flaw in Leni’s politics that should come as a surprise to many of those who came to regard her as a latter day saint of the internet. She returned briefly on 17 March to enquire about Sara’s health, again on the 23rd after being admitted to hospital and on 28th, “ to defend both myself and tx (Turminderxuss) against unwarranted accusations of racism”. She was answered politely by others here and I posted the verbatim account from the Untrusted site. On 16 April she returned to leave a short post for her friends.

There is a lot of sentimentality surrounding Leni, often from people who have read little if any of her extensive posting history. So here are some of her posts to set the record straight.

 On religion

Accept it or reject it – religion has always played a major role in human affairs. It deserves to be be ‘wondered about’.

The biggest problems seem to stem from our inability to understand the internal space which religion – or opposition to it – create in believers and the antireligion brigade.

One cannot understand the other – be they members of another faith or other sects from within the same religion. The gulf between theists and atheists seems unbridgeable.

Humanist universalists who try to see beyond the religious divide come up against belief systems which teach difference both within their faith community and across religious divides.

These differences result in differing and often opposing moral and social codes. Once these become the foundations of political thought and structure we are set on collision course , one against another at both inter and intra religious level.

Much to ponder – outright atheism is no more useful in solving these problems than the ‘inter faith dialogues’ which seem to have become permanent fixtures within both politics and religion.

Carry on pondering – please just stop the vilification and the killing for God which for so long has also been an established fixture.

From the Guardian’s:    I’ve changed my mind about religion.26 Dec 2009 11:59am

 On Sleep

Sleep it is a blessed thing and all that. Sleep, or lack of it, has featured in myth, story and poetry for ever. It is obviously something which has preoccupied us for a long time. We also have the moralising attitude which decries the night owl. “Early to bed…” I am a night owl, something of a free runner now I don’t have to get off to work in the morning at a given time. Self employment has its advantages. I can find myself out of sync with the busy day time world but can’t break myself from my love of the silent hours after midnight. To blame gadgets seems a poor excuse for demanding that we all obey the same rules. There have always been things around to keep ua awake at night. The over riding technological advance was the discovery of lighting. Cave men no doubt welcomed the warm glow of the camp fire, around which they gathered to set the world to rights or hack away at flints. My “best bit” is waking up, the feeling of comfort and just the right temperature. Often I feel so tired that the effort of going to bed is too much. Once I’m over that stage I can generally keep going for several more hours. There is now the additional lure of waiting for CiFers from other times zones

On Culture

‘Great’ works of art , literature or music have universal relevance – if they cannot be updated and placed in other settings then they fail us . Rigoletto is a very simple story – very human and could be set anywhere and at any time .

Much of EU structural funding for culture and design has gone in the past to lots of sectors . One of the major criticisms coming from the Commission is that in some countries control of ‘culture’ is too centralised and therefore to an extent controlling .

Morris dancing is an Art form – a means of expression – of self and of community . Years ago the Gulbenkian Foundation funded community groups to make video recordings of their daily lives – there are groups dedicated to the preservation of old pics showing ways of life and long lost crafts . People need to both express themselves and appreciate the striving and accomplishments of others – alive or dead . The tall wobbly buildings in Yemen or the music of India are also part of our cultural heritage – part of human achievement. The struggle for universal education or health care produced writers and artists – the list is endless. Culture is not insular.

Until culture is given a very broad definition and embraces all human activity it will continue to divide through false values . You will see I care a lot about this – across the spectrum. It is about human expression – but also about not allowing one sector to take control of and then misuse history and human creativity as symbols of power or the creation of false histories .

About Comment is Free – where she spent a large amount of her time:

When I first came to CiF long posts and interesting discussions were the norm – I learned a lot in areas I had little experience of and in some cases came to understand why others held views opposed to mine . I might not have come to agree with them but could see why they believed as they did . The aim of the discussion then became to try to bridge the gap .

But – all gone . We seem assailed on all sides by trite nonsense – I say this as someone who values the role of nonsense and silliness in our lives – in addition to the serious and thought arousing . I love the creative and the ponderous both . In short I am disappointed in CiF.

About Twitter , reflecting, on the detrimental effect of its 140 character limit and what she felt was the demise of long posts and interesting discussions. Reflecting was something Leni Farrer did particularly well.

I have more or less given up – I look in here each day to see if anything worth supporting has been suggested . Not that it makes much difference – it seems the agenda is already set. Wanting to read more than than 140 characters about a subject – any subject – is probably connected to the fact that you are a literate thinking being. Still – the cost of education for the masses will be reduced as the workaday vocabulary is reduced to monosyllables, grunts and text speak.

Gove will be pleased . Leni

On Israel and Palestine

In her early days on CiF right up to the election of the current government in 2010, her posts were mainly about the conflict between Israel and Palestine and the wider Middle East.

She was a firm supporter of the Palestinians although this never diverted her from displaying the even handedness and the need for compromise that others remember and have commented on.  Here she is in January 2009:

We need a non partisan peace movement, here,in Israel and Palestine which will attract a broad body of support which actively works towards peace without demonising either peoples, which combats exremism and which recognises the history and culture of both.

That Israel can be a force for good in the region is undeniable — in fact it could be said that her developed economy is necessary if the region as a whole is to flourish, as long as the benefits are shared and the Palestinians given the opportunity to participate .The sharing of natural resources, the how to solve the problems of increasing aridity in the region alone is a reason for bringing people together and starting dialogue.

The peaceful settlement with equal status to both peoples living together would help to heal many of the inter religious violence throughout the world and would hopefully start to build a new consensus based on dialogue and the recognition of a shared heritage. We will either learn to respect each other or we will all founder.

She also posted about religion, from her perspective as a pagan, philosophy, economics and the environment. 

Hello Dawn

On Saturday I posted a SUGGESTION that we talk about small things – invertebrates. Insects, worms etc.

They constitute 80% of species 20% of which are endangered . Earthworms and pollinating insects are vital for agriculture – and our gardens . Their value to humings in monetary terms runs into the billions.

Beautiful in themselves the creepy crawlies need our help – but we need them too.

Even spiders are essential – do you want to be waist deep in flies ? The pretty one such as butterflies and dragon flies have been symbols of liberation for generations – but there are so many more , some so tiny we never see them . Very tiny critters living in soils and leaf litter – and – I do not know how many species – sea and fresh water folk.

They also have the right to exist for themselves – same as us .

Please Dawn – can CiF help to raise awareness ?

If you don’t like the creepies – have a look at some macro-pics and see how wonderful they are .

On the Welfare State

Neither was she a sentimental, uncritical, supporter of the Welfare State and the benefits system as she demonstrated in her response to Joseph Harker’s plea for the continuation of the principle of universality, when Osborne announced the end of child benefit for all:

Just over three months ago on cif I – and others – asked for articles looking at the breadth and depth of the fall out from these cuts. It was evident from the start that the sick, the disabled and the unemployed were only the first to be targetted.

The lack of response and support for the impoverished from those who felt secure in their own comfort zone was not unexpected – many of them joined in the finger pointing and scapegoating – but was disappointing as it proved we live in a harsh and uncaring society.

Do you expect me to sympathise with you because you cannot pay for swimming lesons for your children despite earning in excess of £40.,000 pa ? 
Yur child benefit for 5 children must be the eqivalent to or more than unemployment benefit.

Perhaps you can take comfort fom the fact that some childen here in Britain are in receipt of food parcels from charity to ensure their well being whilst many will be forced to move out of their current rented home as HB is cut . Cild pverty – in real terms – is on the increase. I hope you will speak out on behalf of the poorest families and the millions of children who can oy dream of dancing or swimming lessons.

Your selfish response to your own perceived ‘loss’ has made me very angry – but has confirmed my view that those who are happy to scapegoat the sick and unemployed have absolutely no understanding whatsoever of the meaningof poverty and deprivation.

She did post later on the same thread to indicate that maybe her initial reaction was not quite as definite as she’d intended, with the following:

Looking beyond this particular article I agree that are anomolies in this policy – those without dependant children earning in excess of k40 will not be touched at all by it. it also moves some families competely from the benefit system thereby removing their support for benefits for poorer families. Taxation is clearly the better option. From an electoral point of view this would antagonise even more tory voters . Targetting CB gives the impression of ‘sharing’ the pain whilst cushioning the majority of the higher income earners. There is a basic dishonesty being employed here. There is still time to backtrack between now and October 20.

And on the  National Health Service here she is responding to another legend of Comment is Free, princesschipchops about tuberculosis and the short memory or lack of research of those who now take the NHS for granted:

Hello Princess

TB took a terrible toll as we know. Reading some of these threads it seems that many commenters know very little social history – many seem unaware of their own roots and the conditions their parents or grandparents suffered under.

As you say the long , hard battle to improve the lot of and to enshrine their right to life for all in our thinking had a very short success. It is as though it never happened.

Centuries of struggle, a long slow groping towards the light of compassion and the simple recognition of a shared humanity being wiped out. It is terrifying to see how an ideology which discounts human need and dignity can so quickly take root in a society.

On George Galloway

Also agree about Galloway. Nasty- publicity seeking character . Does lots of harm.

On Pessimism

We see so many divisions and they seem to be widening – people forced apart by prejudice and hatred . Divisions perpetuated – be it differences in colour, religion, sexual orientation, abilities (both cognitive and physical ) wage levels and whether in or out of employment . This to name but some of the gulfs being exploited for the gain and advantage of the few .

Having been one of many who campaigned with and behalf of disabled children and adults over many years i survey the wreckage around us . We believed that as disability crosses all boundaries – can strike anyone at any time – winning the fight for equality and recognition of the needs of disabled people would help to build a society in which people were seen simply as people . Part of our campaign was to eliminate all discrimination based on difference . We failed .

On Leaving religion, ethnicity and nationalism out of it

I would like to believe that we can , someday, separate politics and development from religion and ethnicity . But for as long as ‘success’ is measured by the riches of the few , while ignoring the poverty of many , ethnic/class and religious difference will be used to scapegoat and marginalise into poverty and rejection .

40%+ of children under 3 are underweight and 55% of women suffer from anaemia in Gujarat . – there is hunger in the midst of plenty.

Wealth creation is not development – the concentration of wealth and opportunity in the hands of the few is not wealth distribution and does little to ease suffering .

Rural development needs to be taken seriously – the provision of food, water and education among all citizens are the proper activities of the politicians and leaders . Greed and corruption – identity politics which marginalise and deprive through fear and intimidation are growing trends around the world .

Shame on Cameron’s gvt. – and any other – which ignores cruelty by national or State leaders in the name of economic investment which seeks only to further enrich a small minority in both Gujarat and here in Britain .

Leave religion, ethnicity and nationalism out of it – feed the people – build a society in which wealth and opportunity are fairly distributed among all . Simply – respect your own humanity and recognise that of others .

—————————————————————————–

On  paganism and agnosticism – if you want to treasure her memory don’t sully it with religious mumbo jumbo.

On (some) Christians and love.

When my husband died the local vicar refused to officiate at his funeral service – on the grounds that D and I were Pagans.  His grounds for refusal ? D had carved a large dragon for the local school – this in Wales. The children still love the dragon.

Leni

———————————————————————————————————

On Human Rights and the Religious

The idea of Goddess worshippers falling into poverty seems more like a statement of intent than anything else. This tactic still exists – worship the wrong god/goddess and you will have fewer rights – this will lead to your impoverishment or possible banishment from society and therefore your livelihood.

Promises of Justice to follow in the after life may comfort some but does not alleviate suffering in this one . Worse than that it enables believers and those who control them to avoid completely inequalities and injustice. They are enabled to avoid responsibility for cruel and repressive behaviour – because ‘God said ‘.

I am not suggesting that all believers deny their human responsibilities – many are aware that any expression of the Divine – however understood – can only be expressed through human activity and attitudes to ‘other’ – all other.

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On the problems of being all things to all people

I wish people would stop arguing the merits or otherwise of different religions and start to think in human terms.

The Rohingya people have been persecuted for decades. They are stateless refugees – driven back across an unwelcoming border by Bangladesh. Thousands live in refugee camps – often without proper facilities or medical aid. MSF has been ordered to stop helping the people. As a long time supporter of the Pro Democracy movement I am very angry that my support for all the people of Burma/Myanmar* will possibly turn out to have been unwitting support for an ethnic nationalist state. If Suu Kyi will not speak out in support of all the people she does not represent Democracy as I understand it. The rush to gain control of Burma’s rich resources by other countries is preventing them from openly criticising both the present gvt. and those who oppose it – this is ethno killing on a grand scale. Stateless refugees need our support – whoever and wherever they are. To deny them is to deny our own humanity. A Muslim child feels hunger and fear in exactly the same way as any other child – Muslim parents grieve the loss pf their children just as you or I .

* Is it Burma or Myanmar – and is it significant? For Burmese refugees living in camps in Thailand it is and it’s Burma.

On Belief

So far neither theist nor atheist has proved their beliefs “beyond a reasonable” doubt. Each side quotes their own sources and their many leaders. Healthy, questioning doubt, whilst persuing a positive creative life (for those lucky enough to have the opportunity) and respecting the deeply felt convictions of others is a contribution. It may take a long time for this contribution to be recognised. Too much axe grinding going on.

History shows us that once conviction based on faith, be it theist or atheist, goes beyond the personal and becomes a system to be forced onto populations trouble will ensue. To simply divide the human race into believers and nonbelievers is nonsense , there is no *evidence* to support either view. Feel free to believe; don’t dimiss those of us who are still sufficiently aware to
question many things and who doubt that we have yet found the answer. Looking around me, following news stories from around the world makes me wonder if we have yet found the right question.
afancdogge, 17 March 2008 2:28am

Leni Farrer on Remembrance

Although it is natural to remember our own suffering and that of our people I remember the words of my great grand father.

He remembered early troubles in Ireland – the ‘guns in the thatch’ and had met older relatives who had survived the famines. He told me the stories, passed on the names of those who died of starvation all those years before and told me how anger and hatred can travel through the generations. He told me to understand the tragedies and remember them – to speak in defence of all people everywhere and to counter hatred.

A lesson I have remembered from early childhood.

Cambodia 2007, family floating shop on the Tonle Sap

The Guardian’s Comment is Free – censoring the historical record - airbrushing the online version

I want to emphasise that Cif is, crucially, about the articles and the comments. Together they make up the complete picture of what we publish.  - Natalie Hanman, Sept 2010

Some people have poured scorn on the fact that I have objected to the Guardian removing posts from the threads of articles which have been available on its internet site for many years.  This matter arose after one of its commissioned  writers asked for her profile to be removed.  This request is not uncommon and indeed the paper itself uses it to punish posters who it feels have breached its Community Standards. What is I believe unique is for it to agree to a request for the removal of every comment within a thread, such that the original meaning of the discussion within that thread is seriously degraded.

At the end of her popular and much acclaimed article Don’t blame the police for Sabina Akhtar’s murder, the writer, Jane Nichol-Bell / BeautifulBurnout was asked by the poster TaBeMar, “if you were asked to write the same article, now that you have had the debate, would it be the same?”

We don’t know if Jane Nichol-Bell replied and if she did, what that reply was, as in an act of censorship, the Guardian has removed her posts from the thread that followed the article and on every thread she’d ever posted on.  However I did pick up on TeBeMar’s question and provided a detailed response which I reproduce here.  I had wanted to post it on another article by Frances Crook, which BeautifulBurnout had dismissed out of hand, but as the comments thread was closed I posted it instead on the Sabina Akhtar thread. My original is still on this thread.

“I wanted to post this on the Frances Crook article, “Our prisons are failing women”, which of course should have been titled “Our Justice System is Failing Women”, but missed the last post so to speak. But BeautifulBurnout, in the light of your response to TaBeMar’s question, “if you were asked to write the same article, now that you have had the debate, would it be the same?”, it seems worth posting here.

Frances Crook, it looks like this thread is just about finished and you have generated a host of comments from posters, many of whom who have yet to read the Commission’s report, but feel comfortable about dismissing its research and findings.

But you will know, as do the more aware on this thread that already the government has accepted some of your recommendations and no doubt will accept more. So thank you for coming here and sharing your thoughts with us and let’s look forward to the day that we really do have a justice system free of sexism.

Sometimes coincidence plays a cruel hand for each of us to play and when BeautifulBurnout, you dismissed Frances Crook’s article you wrote:

“You give some interesting statistics into the number of women who have been subjected to domestic violence, have mental health issues and have been in care as children, but the same can be said about men – yes, even the domestic violence, if we include being beaten black and blue at home by parents and siblings.”

So did you realise that the late Sabina Akhtar, about whom you were to write your first article for CiF, featured so prominently in the report that Frances Crook was writing about? Or had you like so many of the early posters on her thread, assumed this was just another article from the statistically illiterate “mad fems” and dashed off a rapid response?

And if you did know, did it not seem strange that you should come to such a different conclusion to the Commission of which Frances Crook was a member, about how Ms Akhtar’s death so clearly illustrated the institutional sexism of the criminal justice system?

Or if you didn’t know, do you not feel you might now consider that maybe the reaction of the CPS whose neglect has resulted in an apology to Ms Akhtar’s family and the retraining of its staff, should have been given more prominence in your article?

When I look at the 456 comments on Frances Crook’s thread, I discover that only I and AllyF, seem to have looked at the report about which she was writing. Others might have done but they don’t say that in their posts. And he refers to it as “the Fawcett report”, which it clearly isn’t, so doubts must be cast on his views, or at very least his motive.

In a way your willingness to engage in the debate here has put you in a more difficult position to the one you could have been in had you followed the ‘no comment’ response of so many of CiF’s writers, but you didn’t so there are more questions to ask.

You say in your article “They, (the police), had no alternative but to release him (the assassin) on police bail again. They acted properly within the law.”

But later you say if the Manchester Evening News report is correct, which it seems to be, ‘the investigation had been “no further actioned” and bail conditions had been dropped when Mannan was released, which puts a completely different spin on things.”

So maybe with this information, you might not have said “They (the police) acted properly within the law.”

You posed the question, “First, if Kennedy is right, and if this case succeeds, aren’t we opening the doors to a deluge of similar cases?”  To which having studied this case in more detail, you might have concluded the answer is yes, yes and yes again. And which battered partner is going to object? In fact I think on reflection you might now reconsider the inclusion of the entire paragraph about the implications of a successful case by Helena Kennedy QC.

It was Ultimathule* who correctly challenged your inclusion of the Smith – Jeffrey case as in some way exonerating the failure of the police to protect Ms Akhtar. For despite the judge’s ruling, any reasonable person would consider the police to have failed miserably in their duty to protect Stephen Smith, and maybe even more than they failed Ms Akhtar.

You ended your article “But, harsh though it may seem, what other possible approach can there be?”

Well I think you have in your own words shown that there were and are several other approaches which had they been adopted might have saved Sabina Akhtar’s life.”  *

* Sadly, the post from Ultimathule was deleted by the moderators, along with a number of her other posts, so we have no chapter and verse of her challenge, but what we do have from the thread are parts of fifteen of  Jane Nichol-Bell / BeautifulBurnout’s replies to people who’d read her article and posted.  But let me start with one of my own: 

Good posts from sambeckett2, mschin, MissK123 and speedkermit, someone who does seem to know about and be interested in the law relating to this matter, Brusselsexpats, ManchePaul, BeatonTheDonis, Emalina, stevejones123,
george60, MrBullfrog, MistyChick, julianabanana, imasmadashell, TristramShandy, clandella, AlexJones, most of which BeautifulBurnout painfully ignores while bathing in the adulation heaped on her first article.

So whatever she and her acolytes would now like to present as the truth, each one of these posters below recorded their own concerns about her article and if she responded, (here in italics), what that response was.

From MrBullFrog

@ BeautifulBurnout
Your comments below the line have very often been interesting and well-informed; they have had the benefit of drawing on what you have seen and what you know. For your first piece above the line, you have fallen into the journalistic trap of commenting on a case which you know nothing about other than what you have read in the newspapers, and you have produced just another opinion piece. If this had been written by one of the usual Guardian hacks, it would have been treated with far less indulgence. I think that in itself is worth thinking about.

From BeatonTheDonis

As to the CPS apology, it is clear that they realise that they made a mistake because of the obvious and horrible consequences of not charging Mannan sooner. But the key question is, could a reasonable prosecutor, reviewing the
evidence at the time, have decided not to charge?

From Bitethehand

BeautifulBurnout writes in her defence:
“Firstly and most importantly, the only details I have about this case are from what everyone else has read in the link to the BBC article”

From Bitethehand

BeautifulBurnout:
“I shan’t respond to the below-the-line comment hauled over from another thread on a completely different subject – that of women in the prison system - as it has no relevance here.”

From Bitethehand

BeautifulBurnout:
“Fortunately there is a government initiative to introduce more and more Specialist Domestic Violence Court Programmes.”

From Bitethehand

BeautifulBurnout:
“We don’t know if she made a series of complaints or if she just made the one complaint when she was threatened in July 2008 and informed the police on that occasion of the previous attacks. I don’t think this is misleading at all. We simply don’t know.”

But we do know that she went to the police more than once as the court records show and I posted earlier

From Bitethehand

BeautifulBurnout:
“But this is where I disagree with you. When someone is investigated and prosecuted, the Crown has the whole machinery of the police and CPS behind it. The defendant has a solicitor on legal aid who has nothing like the resources to investigate and fact-find. I believe it is wrong to put someone in prison on the basis that they are likely to have done it. Society has to be pretty damn sure they have done it, imo.”

From Millytante

@BeautifulBurnout 16 May 09, 2:59pm
You write, “millytante. I can’t really admit it because I don’t have any proof of it.”

Well that’s no excuse, there is plenty of evidence out there. The blind eye technique of justice is morally indefensible.

And even more astonishing, “I know that’s not a very satisfactory answer but I have never specifically looked into that aspect of DV.”

So what makes this form of DV not worth looking at? Is it because the victims are not white?
This is just for starters.

From Bitethehand

BeautifulBurnout
Those posts about Manchester are worrying. I really am troubled by the idea that the GMP gets an average of 100 referrals a night on domestic violence. I wonder what the figures are nationally.

From Bitethehand

BeautifulBurnout:
“The police and CPS were faced with a dilemma; breaching police bail conditions on its own is not an offence…”

Arrest for Breach of Bail Condition

“Under a power inserted into PACE by the Criminal Justice Act 2003 the police
can arrest you without warrant if you are released on bail from police detention
and a constable has reasonable grounds for suspecting you have breached any
of the conditions of bail. You must be taken as soon as possible after the arrest
to the police station to which you are required to report.”

From Ultimathule

BB
They need to be reported to the police – every single time they do it.

And if 25 times is not enough to protect a woman what is?

But the problem is, women who are victims of domestic violence on a continuous basis are those who are least likely to take any action. It is a thoroughly depressing situation.

This is blame the victim. I thought you were of the opinion that the perpetrator was the one responsible. What happened to that?

From Ultimathule

BB writes
I would be grateful if you could point to the comment I made which says that I don’t think the conviction rate for rape should be improved 

I was lead to believe that by how vigorously you attacked any attempts to change things.

I recall saying there shouldn’t be a lower standard of proof for rape vs other criminal offences and explained why.

And my argument actually was that the burden of proof in the rape case should be thesame as in other cases , not lower like you chose to present it. I did say the burden of proof in the rape cases is disproportionately high. By which I suggested it was higher than in other cases. See, misunderstandings all around?

I also recall noting the most recent updates to the CPS procedures in relation to rape victims and commenting that it was “good stuff”.

Very well, I’m satisfied if you say you want to improve things your way . Perhaps you have a little different way to do it from mine but that’s how it goes…

BB says
As to when Ms Akhtar informed the police about the other 25 attacks on her, we simply have no idea because that information is not in the public domain. I would be heartily surprised if she did report him 25 times and no action was
taken.

Yet you write

During their short marriage, he was violent to her on 25 separate occasions

How do we know this if not from the public records? Again, very misleading. the passage quoted from the judge

“Police work elsewhere may be impeded if the police were required to treat every report from a member of the public that he or she is being threatened with violence as giving rise to a duty of care to take reasonable steps to prevent the alleged threat from being executed. (…) The judgment as to whether any given case is of that character must be left to the police.”

That was in relation to a man being attacked by his former lover, not a woman. Perhaps you misunderstood that from the article

Yet you used it in the article as if it was referring to this case. That is in itself pretty … misleading. It is your resposibility as a writer to write so that no misunderstandings arise from your text.

From GPO1

@ BB

I think my position is, rather, how do we address it within the confines of the law.

Thanks for correcting my misreading of my understanding of your article & point of view regarding the both the specific case it refers to & the issue in general.

Ms Akhtar had an alarm in her house but should she have been moved to a safe haven pending the investigation? There are so many “ifs” in this that it is difficult to know why the CPS didn’t charge, but they clearly didn’t.

True, the “ifs” are not just a case of, “If A had done this, or B had done that, then the result might have been a very different C”, but, simply on the basis of the revised information from the MEN quote, can encapsulate so much more of the details of which we are to a large extent, & unwillingly, ignorant.

bitethehand links to some information in the Manchester Evening News which is interesting. I was not aware, from the tone of the other articles I’d seen, that the investigation had been “no further actioned” and bail conditions had been dropped when Mannan was released, which puts a completely different spin on things. Everything else I have read indicated that he was released again on the same bail conditions as before pending yet further investigation, so that is something which needs to be clarified.

From room101d30

@ BeutifulBurnout

“Those who know my past comments from elsewhere on CiF know very well I am the least likely person to be looking for excuses for the police. )”

From bitethehand

I’d also like to thank Jane Nichol Bell / BeautifulBurnout for both writing the article and participating in the debate its generated. Given the time you’ve put into this I suspect your legal work is considerably more rewarding.

Your explanation of the legal difficulties involved in restraining a potentially violent man were particularly eye opening. However having been prompted to look into this case in some depth, I do feel there’s more to be uncovered. Perhaps if the Refuge and Helena Kennedy case comes to court we might get some more answers.

And to clear up any misunderstanding monkeyshark, I don’t write for The Guardian or any other newspaper, although I suppose I should be flattered by the suggestion, nor do I know Matt Seaton other than through the pages of CiF. There’s no one else to blame except me I’m afraid.

 Today anyone reading the original article and the thread it generated will be presented with a record that’s as false as those airbrushed photographs of the Stalinist era.