Watching the Untrusted Implode

Llyn Llydaw from Y Lliwedd, Snowdon Horseshoe, July 2014

Llyn Llydaw from Y Lliwedd, Snowdon Horseshoe, July 2014

Welcome to The Real Untrusted – for a brief introduction to this site – read here

“The citadel of established practice seldom falls to the polite knock of a good idea. It may however yield to a long siege, a pre-emptive strike, a wooden horse or a cunning alliance.” 


Ally Fogg’s doubts on the statistical evidence of FGM in the UK must be music to the ears of the cutters

Update 4

From The Telegraph:

The City University London and Equality Now study claims the number of women living in the UK who have experienced female genital mutilation and cutting (FGM/C) has risen dramatically, a new report suggests.

It shows that the practice has been carried out on 137,000 women and girls living in England and Wales.


The Guardian reports:

Social media users warned against falsely calling politicians paedophiles

In which case I suggest it calls BeautifulBurnout/CalamityJane123/ and BacktothePoint, among others, in for an interview.



A where are they now from Ally Fogg:

Surrounded by these braying patsies of the system, I feel more like Winston Smith. Politically I’m probably closer to Cyril Smith, but have a few pounds left to gain. 


 Some new photographs   – here in Photographs 21


 Luoping – Nine Dragons Waterfalls


 Today’s Music

As from today – (sometime in early 2013) “A Change is gonna Come” and hence the track which is from almost 500, vaguely described as pop and rock, on my MP4 player that I use mainly when I’m running at the gym or outdoors, or when I’m doing things I rather not like ironing clothes, cleaning and so on. This one by coincidence comes top of the list when arranged in alphabetical order. Of course I’ll intersperse them with some great jazz and classical music.

Monteverdi – from Vespro della beata Vergine

Yesterday’s Music

 Per Jørgensen – The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress (live, Til Radka, 2009)

El Condor Pasa (If I Could) – Simon & Garfunkel



In the beginning……….. How the CiF rebels turned hypocrisy into an art form-  is now elsewhere  – making comments posted here easier to access – I hope.

To Comment click here & page to the bottom  

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  1. brusselsexpats

     /  July 30, 2014

    Desde – I didn’t think there was anything wrong with Harif’s post – it seemed like a straightforward question and must have save a few posters from making fools of themselves by offering their condolences as though Shazz had lost a partner.

  2. brusselsexpats

     /  July 30, 2014

    Hi Desde – (reply button is very hit and miss)

    I’m sure it’s going to be an emotional exhibition. It still feels a very real tragedy somehow. The end of an era, a kind of omen presaging the dark days of WWI.

    Even the Daily Telegraph called it “A must-see exhibition”.

  3. Morning all.

    I’m going to say something about YTU; to those who say I shouldn’t gossip here, they are already aware that if I get in any argument there the whole nest is often deleted and almost certainly I’d be banned. I’ve been in pre-mod for a month after responding to hermione’s leading of a mob about me. Despite quite a few posts, I cannot get out and some of my posts don’t get through.

    There are signs of a mob forming on YTU against the poster Harif. A while back, Harif wrote about someone she knew having problems regarding work at Gatwick Airport: when the CAB was suggested Harif said they had been useless*. At this point another poster said they didn’t believe what Harif was saying, unclear if it was just about Gatwick or the CAB or both. Now, Harif has posted proof of the Gatwick situation and that same poster has come back, accepting Harif’s truthfulness but offering no apology for their accusation and saying that if Harif has to be ‘unpleasant’ then they’d get a reaction. The only unpleasantness here is from that poster for insinuating that Harif was lying.

    A while back, Harif asked another poster to clarify if they were talking about the death of an animal or a partner. The poster confirmed that it was their dog who’d died. Yesterday, whilst a completely different subject was discussed by several posters who were challenging Harif, a poster chipped in with Harif having been ‘unpleasant to the former poster about their dog. This is not true: Harif only asked for clarification and in fact quite a few posters, including myself, had no idea the bereavement was of a dog and had assumed it was a person. Further, one poster said they’d revealed things they wouldn’t have done if they’d known a dog had died. Harif has spoken of their love of animals.

    It looks suspiciously like this is going to escalate into a mobbing. If posters disagree with Harif’s views on I/P then they can challenge them but this making things up, by increasing numbers of posters, about them being unpleasant is just picking on someone and attempting to bully them.

    *The CAB were useless when I asked them for help about problem with DWP having my NI number wrong.

    • brusselsexpats

       /  July 30, 2014

      Hi Desde – I also thought her partner had died and was surprised at subsequent posts that seemed to indicate something of a Merry Widow syndrome. When I realised it was a dog she was talking about the penny dropped.

      These ghastly posters never apologise for their own lies. I’m owed a dozen apologies for all the lies and slander thrown at me and have never had one. On the contrary, every time I prove what I’ve been saying they seem to hate me even more because it shows them up for the idiots they are.

    • JimPress

       /  July 30, 2014

      Yes, the pitchforks are being lit, but I wouldn’t overly worry. The leaders of the current lynch mob are so inept and clumsy they’re more likely to set themselves alight than harm Harif.

    • JimPress

       /  July 30, 2014

      Can you light a pitchfork? I’m sure they’ll try.

    • Hi Jim

      I hoped that if any of those posters read this they might think about what they’re doing and stop it from going too far. They can provoke others to get angry which often leads to moderation, pre-mod or banning for that poster. A vain hope I suppose.


      A strange facet of the Bitey versus CalamityBurnout is that CalB claims that Bitey has gone for her in her private life. However, CalB’s closest YTU friend, backtothepoint, repeatedly uses another poster’s real life name which he learnt from other websites, (something that was posted quickly and in a different context and just as quickly removed) and CalB does not challenge him on this. It is the same with BlackberryBlossom who is also friendly with CalB and also uses that other poster’s real name: CalB does not confront him on this. This really weakens her claim that Bitey has, or has tried to, use personal information against her, for she cannot object to the use of personal information when it concerns herself and yet not object when other posters do the same.

    • Hi Desde, you say:

      A strange facet of the Bitey versus CalamityBurnout is that CalB claims that Bitey has gone for her in her private life.

      Well she might have although I’ve never seen it. What I have done is to report on this site, on CiF and The Untrusted, various things she said about herself, her husband, her red-haired child and so on. For instance here she is on 30 June 2009 giving support to of all things, Sharia Courts in the UK:

      “I really don’t understand why it is an issue that Muslims turn to people of their own faith to arbitrate when there is an argument.”

      And here she is on 12 Oct 2009

      “You really are quite incorrigible. You lie, twist and talk abject rubbish most of the time. Very occasionally you have a point worth reading, but I shall be passing from now on as, you will be pleased to hear, I shall be ignoring anything you post.”

      Shame she didn’t.

      And here on 15 July 2010

      And burning little girls because they are witches is a religious requirement for some Christians.

      It isn’t but it’s an amazing claim to make.

    • Hi Bruss

      It never entered my head to think it was anything other than the death of a person and I was quite taken aback to learn that it was a dog. It was quite astute of Harif to notice this – it came as a shock to me. There was nothing remotely ‘unpleasant’ in what Harif said: if anything it was those who felt their emotions had been manipulated who could feel hard done by.

    • ‘the pitchforks are being lit,’

      Thought that was a really good metaphor.

  4. brusselsexpats

     /  July 30, 2014

    Morning all,

    Bitey thanks for that tip. The museum will be on my list of things to see when I finally leave the Brussels scene to concentrate on cultural travel. It’s very difficult to visit places like China when holidays have to be squeezed in around work.

    At the moment in Brussels there’s an exhibition on the Titanic which has received rave reviews in the international press. The artefacts are genuine. It’s amazing how well preserved artefacts can be when they have lain in the silt for so long. I’m thinking of visiting it this weekend if I have time.

    When visiting the exhibition on the Antikythera shipwreck in Athens last year, there were objects destined for wealthy clientele in Rome that were in mint condition. One pale green glass vase looked as though it had just been manufactured for a shop today it was so perfect.

    • Morning Bruss.

      I love anything about the Titanic. There’s a maritime museum in Southampton with an extensive exhibition about the ship and I was there in the centenary year of 2012 working at a holiday lodge for disabled guests. It was a popular choice to visit but unfortunately it lacked the facilities for so many visitors who use wheelchairs.

  5. Still no sign of 101 – any news?

  6. brusselsexpats

     /  July 29, 2014

    Beautiful statuette up there. Lovely clean lines.

    • Hi Bru,

      I’m continually astounded at the sheer beauty and volume of statuary, carvings, ceramics, pottery, metal work, jewellery, etc in museums all over China. And many of the museums are new, purpose built, well staffed and a sheer delight to visit.

      Everyone I’ve met who’s going to China has Xi’an and the Terracotta Warriors on their itinerary, and quite rightly so, but I’ve yet to meet anyone who’s been to the wonderful Xi’an Museum with its 130,000 exhibits, most of which were unearthed in the important tombs and the capital sites of the Zhou Dynasty (11th century BC-221 BC), the Qin Dynasty (221 BC-206 BC), the Han Dynasty (206 BC-220 AD), and the Tang Dynasty (618-907). I spent best part of a day there and could easily have been there for a week.

  7. In the USA, Eli Lilly pharmaceutical company, has faced legal action from some of those who have taken Zyprexa an antipsychotic because it can cause huge weight gain leading to diabetes, heart disease and early death. In Britain the drug is known as Olanzapine. If any of those in this country want to take legal action it could be difficult. For all it’s good attributes, one of the negatives of the NHS is that it gives doctors and others significant protection from legal action and Britons are unlikely to sue as they hold the NHS in such high regard. In the USA it could be easier to sue when the doctors are in private practice.

    There are quite a lot of people who take antipsychotics who have had and are having serious problems as a result, dismissed as mere ‘side effects’ by psychiatrists. What are the legal avenues for redress for those taking medication that makes them put on 9 stones in weight and which may cause them to die much earlier? Especially those who are forced to take antipsychotics. It’s bizarre that a psychiatrist may force someone to take a drug and justify it claiming it’s vital for their health and yet the person may die prematurely in middle age as a direct result of the drug. As the NHS is already going part private it will be intriguing to learn how that affects our status as patients.

  8. brusselsexpats

     /  July 29, 2014

    Morning again,

    BB doesn’t impress me – I see her as a third-rate lawyer in what is the dustbin of law practice. I know that sounds harsh but top lawyers are in corporate law, earn easily up to a million (and more if they are American) and in the UK have first class Oxbridge degrees.

    No top law firm even looks at a 2.1 degree the competition is so fierce. If you are American it’s either Harvard, Yale or Princeton.

    BB may see herself as a female Rumpole of the Bailey but I very much doubt her earnings match her ego. In fact she admitted the fact that she doesn’t do that well financially a while back.

    I personally don’t care how much anyone earns or what they do, but I’m not about to buy into this “I’m more important than anyone else on Cif because – you know – I’m a barrister” lark.

    Have a good day all.

  9. Paul

     /  July 29, 2014

    The Left has really lost it’s way and it depresses the fcuk out of me.

  10. Paul

     /  July 29, 2014

    Some people refer to the Daily Mail as the Daily Heil and seem to think not looking at it is some sort of badge of honour.I look at it to see what sort of crap it’s spewing out to Middle England.And then wonder why the Left isn’t proving more effective in challenging it.

    Take the following .People are clearly now less likely to take their employers to an Employment Tribunal for fear of losing money.So surely discriminating employers are now more confident they’ll get away with breaking the law.So why aren’t the Labour Party and the Left kicking up a fuss about this ? And why aren’t the regulars on YTU demanding that the Guardian addresses this ?

  11. Paul

     /  July 29, 2014

    An example of Jewish sensibilities being seen as not worthy of protection by law in the UK.

  12. Paul

     /  July 29, 2014

    Just checked my e-mails and i’ve got one from the cif mods saying they’ve unblocked my recently modded posts on the I/P problem. That’s actually really decent of them .

    • Well congratulations.

    • Paul

       /  July 29, 2014

      Do i detect a note of sarcasm there Bitey ? :-)

    • Hi Paul,

      If that was about your post being reinstated by the mods, no it was deadly serious. I have a hot / cold attitude towards the moderators. On the one hand they have a job to do and someone’s got to do it given the content of some posts. On the other the way the Guardian gives them freedom of action but at the same time insufficient time to do their job properly, as happened in your case, makes things very frustrating for posters.

  13. Sara

     /  July 28, 2014

    Paul your comments on I/P and antisemitism are always even handed, and I for one. appreciate all you’ve written,

    • Paul

       /  July 29, 2014

      Hi Sarah

      Thanks for that,There’re certain issues which seem to be taboo over at cif-both atl and btl and which seem to be generally taboo in many left-leaning circles.And certain dimensions to the middle east problem are just one example of that . .

      I’ve got an interest in multiculturalism and what that means in practice in this country .And increasingly it seems to be Black and Asian British people who’re questioning the rose-tinted view ,along with a tendency to hide behind cultural relativism. which some people have.Whilst others are afraid of being branded racist or bigoted if they question them.Hardly a firm foundation for any future multicultural society which is at ease with itself.

      Hope that problem you mentioned a while back has been sorted.If not i hope it is soon.

      I’m listening to Cleo Laine and Ray Charles cover of Porgy and Bess at the moment so here’s a track from it.

    • Good morning all

      ‘…it seems to be Black and Asian British people who’re questioning the rose-tinted view ,along with a tendency to hide behind cultural relativism. which some people have.’ Paul

      I was just thinking that recently. It is far easier to discuss concerns over immigration and migration with immigrants themselves and their descendants than it is with white Britons. One of the things I’ve learnt from reading Cif is just how much some of the white middle class hate the white poor and working class. Being aware of it before but not the depth of it. Because immigrants and their children understand being marginalised and being afraid of not getting a nice house or a good job, they are often far more open to listening to the worries of the poor whites and they have their own views. It is rare for a person of migrant or immigrant origins to explode with accusations of racism or religious prejudice against a person saying they do not like the numbers of new incomers in their community.

      I mentioned before of the fellow volunteers who came from Afghanistan and Argentina respectively who said that the country was becoming too crowded. It was easy for us to discuss border control and what is happening with housing, jobs and schools without being called bigotted arse gravies, as CalamityBurnout and others have done.

  14. Paul

     /  July 28, 2014

    Bitey ! Help !

    I think Calamity Burnout’s stalking me.Everytime i post anything she’s there,twisting,distorting and misrepresenting everything i say.She’s become like a limpet which i can’t get rid of.Any tips on how to get rid of this nuisance will be gratefully received. :-)

    • What is her motive?

    • Hi Desde,

      His frequent presence on this site?

    • Paul

       /  July 28, 2014

      Hi desde

      I can handle CJ/BB whatever her motive is.I don’t know if you saw a thread i was on recently where she willfully misrepresented everything i said,accusing me of using ”quilted language” to act as a smokescreen to demonise muslims and deflect from the current situation in Gaza or some such bollox.Which is actually highly offensive when you think about it.And it’s typical of the way she tries to stymie debate. .Yet if you give her a taste of her own medicine she plays ”victim” at the drop of a hat.She’s pitiful.

      YTU’s no big deal and i can easily live without it.So i think i’ll largely stick to the main threads from now on.And provided Bitey doesn’t object i’ll spin a few tunes here in the early hours when i’m at a loose end.rather than over there.

      Hope you’re well.And how did you get on at your interviews?

    • Paul

       /  July 28, 2014

      FFS should be here and not hear.Duh!

    • Sara

       /  July 28, 2014

      Hi Paul just reading that thread and it’s making my skin crawl,

    • Sara

       /  July 28, 2014

      saw that wilfull misenterpretaion, makes me sick,

    • Hi Paul.

      I could write a book on it – well I probably have :) but here’s a start.

      CJ123 Posted:

      Either we all agree that, as long as it doesn’t breach the community standards,(or the law) people should be allowed to say what they want to say whether others agree with them or not or we all go home and switch off the intarwebz and do something else instead.

      Is that why she asked The Guardian for all her thousands of previous posts as BeautifulBurnput to be deleted from every thread?

      Where would CiF be if everyone did that?

      Actually you’d better not unless you want her to get you banned. One of the things about being a barrister is that you carry far more weight when complaining to the mods than scribblers. :)

    • Paul

       /  July 29, 2014

      Hi Bitey

      i think CJ/BB is incredibly good at twisting and distorting the truth and manipulating some people into believing what she wants them to believe.But at the end of the day she’s no big deal and she’ll come unstuck day.

    • Hi Paul,

      I saw some of it but the beauty of nesting is that one doesn’t need to open out nests to read if it looks like it could be unpleasant/waste of time. Personally I’ve never seen you being a really aggressive poster in the way that some are – the steamrollers as I think of them. Mostly they’re not interested in the issue but in the argument and in trashing those with a different view and thinking they’re clever at ‘winning’. Maybe they need that affirmation and feel powerless in their own lives. Because they don’t look at the bigger picture they can’t see that in the real world, a lot of people don’t share their views. Sad fact is there are people who support the coalition’s policies without really knowing what their effect is. In theory, some of the policies look okay. I can see that in the not too distant future, only those who agree with the long term residents will feel comfortable posting on YTU.

      I didn’t get the jobs but the interviewer said loads had applied, so I continue.

      ‘CJ/BB is incredibly good at twisting and distorting the truth and manipulating some people into believing what she wants them to believe.But at the end of the day she’s no big deal and she’ll come unstuck day.’

      Agree with the first part but sadly I think it’s those that have been manipulated who will come unstuck – CJ/BB is rich and privileged and it’s easy for her to get out of any difficulties whether online or in real lived life.

    • brusselsexpats

       /  July 29, 2014

      Morning all,

      She did the same with me a couple of years back. She would suddenly duck up on threads she would never normally be seen dead on – such as theatre etiquette (in the culture section) just to slag me off. The woman has such class……

  15. JimPress’s and Harif’s posts regarding posting on YTU on that very thread are pertinent.

    It is not up to any YTU poster to decide what gets talked about, how it gets talked about or who should be allowed to post there. If someone wants to make those kind of decisions they need to set up their own blog. The difficult thing is that The Guardian has allowed some posters to dominate that thread and to routinely break community guidelines.

    Some time back, there were posters who told me I shouldn’t discuss child abuse on YTU because it, like I/P, was not to be talked about there.

    • Hi Desde,

      Just had a look at Jim’s epic response to Shazzbot and Harif’s short and pertinent post and both are excellent. I also read Jim’s one about Amnesty International and that builder of girls’ schools, Moazzam Begg.

    • brusselsexpats

       /  July 28, 2014

      Hi Desde,

      You have to get into their thick skulls that they don’t own the Guardian or any part of its website.

      And it’s pure arrogance and selfishness to imagine that only your (and your cronies’) opinions and tastes matter. They do not and if other people wish to discuss things you find too much, then scroll past – or get lost.

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