BeautifulBurnout, Backtothepoint – Nazi = NATO = United Nations

Oradour

Oradour, where 642 of its inhabitants, including women and children, were massacred by a Nazi Waffen-SS company.

BeautifulBurnout, Backtothepoint – Nazi = NATO = United Nations

BeautifulBurnout

You talk about “well known Nazi atrocities”. The sort of thing I am talking about is the casual cruelty of an occupying force, as happened month in month out in small towns and villages throughout France, from the accounts I have heard.

The same way they happen month in month out in small towns and villages in Afghanistan.

To which PeterBracken posted this excellent response:

This (BB’ post above)  was BB replying to 10jiao

It’s made in an effort to demonstrate her pristine, evenhanded sense of morality. But all it does, of course, is hang her by her own pleading.

How anyone – and I mean anyone, let alone a signed-up member of the engaged family that is Cif – can juxtapose NATO soldiers with their Nazi counterparts is beyond any reasonable reckoning.

But that is the quality of the corrosion that afflicts supposedly intelligent discussion on these boards.

‘Faux’ this, ‘foaming’ that – so the likes of BB represent objections to his or her reasonableness. But the truly sad aspect of it all is not the exposure of a callous and callow ideology (that’s easily done); it’s the trenchant retreat – by lay members of this community – into a redoubt that houses the abominations of history.

Therein lies the shame. Therein lies the issue. And therein lies the reason why I – why many of us, I suspect – bother to post.

For all her success as a practising barrister, self-made business woman and sterling example to unemployed people to locate their backbone and pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, MrsB and her beau Backtothepoint really do come out with some nonsense.

In May 2009 there were two interesting exchanges on CiF’s You Tell Us. One concerned Sharon Shoesmith the former head children’s services in the London Borough of Haringey and the other about the actions of NATO troops working in Afghanistan under the mandate of the United Nations.

Backtothepoint had posted a rather infantile suggestion that the attitudes faced by Muslims in the UK was equivalent to that faced by Jews in Nazi Germany.

“Once you don’t see them as real people any more, they’re quite easy to exterminate”

At the time of writing there were over 2.87 million Muslims in the UK, which suggests at very least that BTTP doesn’t understand the meaning of “easy”.

To which MrsB’s response to the following post:

“when they come for you, the postman will show them your door, and the person leading them will be the man who teaches your children.”  was:

“Horribly, depressingly true.”

MrsBootstraps, continued to reinforce her ignorance by stating:

Ideally it would be better if it were nipped in the bud before we do start exterminating Muslims, though, eh?

and continued:

About which she was correctly reprimanded:

If there are no occupying forces then why the Nazi comparison other than to portray a hatred and contempt for your country’s service men and women and grotesquely exaggerate and misrepresent their military behaviour?

And later she posted

“And yes, it made me think that our behaviour in Afghanistan is no better than the Nazis at times.”

So who exactly is the “we” she was talking about here, her being a Buddhist pacifist, and what were the “worst memories of stories from France of the Nazi Occupation”?

Later she answered the question with a reference to one of the most appalling examples of Nazi atrocites in occupied France:

“No Oradours could be justifiable, no matter what the “cause”.

She was challenged by among others, me and Routemaster who posted:

In Oradour the Nazis rounded up the population and seperated the men from the women and children.The men were executed and the women and children were herded into the village church which was set on fire and all burned to death bar one woman who managed to escape.The Western Forces in Afghanistan have been responsible for a number of civilian deaths as a result of bombing the wrong targets but do you really believe that is the same as the Nazi massacre in Oradour?

And her response:

Oradour was a “mistake”, Routemaster. The Nazis at the time thought they were targeting an “insurgent” base. They just happened to get the wrong village.

and later:

“Dunno mate. Are they all dead? Are they all civillians? Are the technological means at our disposal these days compared with 1944 a good excuse for why it is we are different?”

Backtothepoint did his best to divert the matter with this:

“I think what was done to Fallujah was very Nazi-like. Resist us and we’ll wipe you off the map.

Just one little extract from Wiki on the aftermath:

In July 2010, BBC reported a study by Dr. Chris Busby, detailing increases in infant mortality, such as a 12 fold increase in childhood cancer reported in Fallujah since the attack. In 2004, Iraq had the world’s highest rate of leukaemia, in which significant increases are also reported. The report also noted that the sex ratio had declined from normal to 86 boys to 100 girls, together with a spread of diseases indicative of genetic damage similar to but far greater than Hiroshima.” 

What BTTP failed to post was the following warning from the same wiki source:

Although the authors noted the use of depleted uranium as one possible source of relevant exposure, they emphasized that there could be other possibilities and that their results did not identify the agent(s) responsible for the increased levels of illness.

To his credit Routemaster replied:

“BB/BTTP

I see so what you’re saying is that Nato forces who bomb the wrong target in Afghanistan resulting in innocent civilians being killed are the same as the Nazi forces who as a result of also making a mistake drove into Oradour-Sur-Glane, rounded up every single man ,woman and child,executed the men by firing squad and burnt almost all the women and children to death in the church they had herded them into and then set alight. All i can say is I profoundly disagree with you both.”

and later

“I should have added that you have to see what the Nazis did in Oradour in the context of the appalling cruelty they subjected people all over Europe too. Whatever mistakes the Nato forces have been guilty of in Afghanistan they cannot be compared to the Nazis and to suggest they are shows that you both clearly don’t grasp just how barbaric the Nazis really were.”

and later still:

“BB

On 1 April 1944 20 planes of the American airforce set off on a mission to bomb the German city of Tuttlingen.Unfortunately they attacked the wrong target and ended up bombing the neutral Swiss border town of Schaffhausen causing many casualities and a lot of damage.Tuttlingen you see is only 20 miles or so away from Schaffhausen so a mistake was made.

However the primary intent of the American airforce after all was to attack Tuttlingen and not Schaffhausen.

Do you really believe that when NATO forces go on a mission in Afghanistan and end up attacking the wrong target their primary intent was to kill innocent civilians? In fact even if they hit the right target and innocent civilians get killed do you still believe that the killing of innocent civilans was their primary intent.?

When the Nazis drove into Oradour-Sur Glane in 1944 their primary intent was to kill innocent civilans in a village they wrongly thought was harbouring resistance fighters. And even if they had got the right village the primary intent of the Nazis was to murder every single civilain in that village..So when you say that NATO forces are behaving like Nazis in Afghanistan you are not comaparing like with like. And to continue to believe they are shows,as I said to you last night,that you don’t fully grasp what the Nazis were all about.”

Not surpringly given their contemptible position, Both MrsB and BTTP attempted to close the discussion down by naming me as “Bitey”, with MrsB showing her desperation with this post:

Because you are talking bollocks again. You are making stuff up as you are going along, then pretending it is what I have said. I shouldn’t be surprised, because that is your stock-in-trade. I can tell you are bored with this particular nick and are building up to another mega-banning, which you will then blame on everyone else except yourself, and whinge on for days on end about how your freedom of speech has been curtailed, and how mean everyone is to you, so I am going to ignore you from now on.

Not everyone MrsB just a small number of censors all of whom are named elsewhere on this blog.

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