Above the line with Kizbot – what she might have written with a little help from her admirers and critics

Facing all ways?

Facing all ways?

Above the line with Kizbot – what she might have written with a little help from her admirers and critics

Update 1

CalamityJane123/BeautifulBurnout posts:

Warning: Do Not Feed! It Bites!

The irony of someone who for years has tried to polish his right-on-man-feminist credentials coming onto a thread specifically about the difficulties some women posters might experience, yet again to insult the female author gratuitously (and entirely off-topic) demonstrates why he has been banned at least 100 times now in different nicks.

sarka posts:

This is also clear in the way BTH is treated very differently on these threads from women of comparable opinions. Even in the comments of “moderates” one can sense the extra annoyance he causes men by being apparently a sort of traitor…”servile”, and so on…Only a strong sense of gender partisanship can explain

Princesschipchops posted

Re Kizbot and Jay. Kizbot you should stick around because otherwise who will make tea or be a voice of reason when some of us get a bit out of hand?
Re the person who said that Jay had to go but bitethehand has stayed. Well I do not agree with Jay being banned but at the same time he did say some pretty aggressive stuff at times and also could use bad language. Now bad language does not bother me and people being aggressive does not bother me (not on forums anyway) but those are the rules and that is why he did get in trouble (rightly or wrongly). Bitethehand has never been abusive to anyone from what I have seen from all my time on posting on here. In fact he gets so much nastiness along with Paul Sagar and even AllyF after writing this piece from some quarters its amazing he has not lost his rag!

And what I ask are CalamityJane123/BeautifulBurnout’s credentials as far as feminism is concerned. Well let her speak for herself:

Just because rad-fems use the patriarchy as an excuse for not having achieved what they want in their lives doesn’t mean that they are not capable of achieving things if they put their minds to it and put some bloody back into it instead of seeking someone/something else to blame. (And, as a successful woman in a “man’s world”, I am living proof of that, but that’s another story)”

Sorry there’s no link to this post but BeautifulBurnout asked the Guardian to delete all her posts from CiF and the paper agreed.  It also explains where her nickname Mrs Bootstraps comes from.

So let me leave the last word to Angie124 who at one time was accused of being both Ultimathule and me:

It seems obvious to me that women are repelled by the hostility shown towards them, by being entirely outnumbered in facing such hostility and by The Guardian supporting this environment through its moderation policy. This policy (a) permits sexist commenting, despite it being prohibited under the standards, (b) fails to censure bloggers such as MAM, Trashheap, Gigoli, Leta, Ghostworld etc etc etc who are unfailingly sexist and aggressive to women and (c) rescinds bans on hostile posters such as Jay Reilly whilst removing vocal opponents of the misogyny on CiF like Ultimathule and BitetheHand.


First what kizbot did post:

I started posting on the Guardian about seven years ago. I’ve had a great deal of pleasure posting on the Guardian– 45,000 posts would attest to that. I particularly enjoy the cut and thrust of the debates on the blogs related to the eurozone crisis and Greek politics, as well as on food and fashion.

And what she posted about her official role on Comment is Free:

I’m known as the “milk monitor” on account of my many complaints to the moderators about fellow posters, who in my opinion are in breach of the Community Standards……it was Peter Jackson who made me Milk Monitor on here.. It was supposed to be an insult, but I was, and am, entirely thrilled with the description (job)…

The late Peter Jackson

Not that Community Standards are something that’s ever bothered kizbot as the following demonstrates:

“Reminds me of when kizbot once claimed to have boycotted waddya ‘for about a month’ in protest at the treatment of jayreilly. In fact, she merely posted for two days under another name, and then it was back to business as usual.”

And the evidence?

Here’s shelagnhnagig on 3 May 2009:

I, personally, don’t find use of the ‘c’ word as a description of a former prime minister particularly inappropriate… Rather apt in fact…However, i cannot say the same about it being described as a woman’s ‘most vital part’... which I find not only inappropriate but extremely insulting… (my emphasis)

JayReilly’s comment that resulted in his banning was to call the Labour Party’s most successful and long standing Prime Minister Tony Blair,  a “cunt”. (no link, it was moderated – but there’s a folk history about it for anyone who doubts the authenticity.)

And here’s kizbot on the Untrusted on 1 May 2009:

‘Am I the only person here that considers that the use of a word for the most vital part of a woman’s body to abuse a former Prime Minister, is not abusive to Tony Blair, but to all women and for that alone he needs to spend time in the naughty corner’
Most vital part….???  (Again my emphasis)
Jesus fucking wept… true colours or what.. There’s only one bit that counts when it comes to us girls, eh?
01 May, 2009 23:00

Vital Urgently needed; absolutely necessary; Performing an essential function in the living body; Full of spirit; Manifesting or characteristic of life.

OK maybe I should have used the word unique rather than most vital but I thought kizbot was sufficiently intelligent to have understood my meaning. It reminds me of the exchange in the infamous Lady Chatterley trial when one witness for the defence was asked “would you call your daughter a cunt?” to which the response was “no m’Lud because she isn’t.”

And neither is Tony Blair, about whom JayReilly, in his straw that broke the camel’s back was referring.

About this episode:

Matt Seaton had posted:

JayReilly only has himself to blame. Like many of you, he’s been around here long enough to know the rules. The moderator on duty was given absolutely no choice but to enforce our community guidelines after repeated breaches of acceptable language by JayReilly.

To which kizbot replied:

so he  (JayReilly)  lost his rag? delete the post… pre-mod him…
But the truth of the matter is that the vast majority of his posts were very interesting and well-reasoned… he was a credit to debate on cif…
And seeing as you think banning is the right way to deal with ciffers, I can’t, and won’t, be a part of it… I’m a woman of loose morals and few principles… but the ones I do have are as intransigent as cif modding policy…
It’s been a blast and I’ll miss cif and many of the BTLers… and even a few ATLers… send my kisses to the adorable Bru…
I’m off to join the refugees…

So JayReilly‘s posts were “very interesting and well reasoned”?

And kizbot wonders why women don’t visit CiF more often.

Here’s Cath Elliott on JayReilly’s “interesting and well reasoned posts”:

And I would say that you, JayReilly, BrusselsLout and the rest of your ilk are the reason why feminism is still so vital today. Thankfully although you all tend to congregate on the CiF fem threads and try and dominate the discourse, out in the real world you’re a rapidly diminishing force. To read the frustrated and powerless misogyny posted on CiF is to observe the death throes of a dying breed; but unlike the dodo and the woolly mammoth, no one will mourn its passing.

Or this one of JayReilly’s on the thread below “Why do so many men still think the sex trade is fine?” by Catherine Bennett on 21 Jan 2008:

This article has all the academic rigour and substance of a GCSE media studies project. Dreadful article that adds absolutely nothing whatsoever to the debate. Ranting is not journalism. Guardian editors, please understand the distinction.

And just to show that we both go back a long way as far as CiF is concerned, here’s kizbot being serious, even analytical:

kizbot on 31 Mar 09, 7:05pm

incidentally, i’d like to know why BTH doesn’t identify as feminist. i hope to god it’s not due to the “only women can be feminist” misconception…      (sorry no link but if you want one I’ll find it).

Finally – well for tonight, here’s what I posted on CiF in response to kizbot’s resignation over JayReilly being banned:

As no doubt one of the serially annoying, I’m sorry to hear this as I very much enjoy reading your posts. Hope you’ll reconsider after a good cup of tea, glass of wine, whatever  🙂