Where are they now? Occasional quotes from the Untrusted and friends.
On the occasion of her contemplating the banning of Peter Bracken from The Untrusted site, Montana Wildhack produced another example language for the young American minds for which she has pastoral responsibility:
Yet here’s their poster boy HankScorpio: 01 October, 2010 22:29
“Racism is in the eye of the beholden, sheff. Having said that, I did call habib a paki when, in extremis, I got a bit pissed off with him stalking my every comment. There’s no excuse for it even so.
So, all things considered, I am obviously a racist and, as a result, I don’t have the right credentials to turn up to BW’s party tomorrow.
I fucking despair of the identity politics that the Guardian has done so much to spread.”
“General strike some time in this parliament perhaps.”
Unemployment has fallen to a seven-year low, offering some reassurance that Britain’s economy has continued to grow despite the global slowdown.
Britain’s private sector workers are enjoying the fastest real wage growth in 14 years, with pay deals picking up as inflation hovers close to zero
Following Fran & Sylvie’s magnificent post about Ally Fogg – below, here’s one of my own, but nowhere near as good, about one of the dear Untrusties:
You flatter yourself and distort reality. You foul mouth off here with a regularity that would grace a metronome.
Seems Ally Fogg’s blog’s been taken over by some dubious advertisers – maybe it’s a virus of some kind. Current ads include:
Fruit That “Destroys” Diabetes
Veggies That “Destroy” Stomach Fat
Granny Reveals Her Method: Don’t Use Botox, Do This Instead
Simple Method “Regrows” Hair. Do This
Famous People You Didn’t Know Were Missing Body Parts
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PS: From time to time I see notices appear here that say something along the lines of “Some adverts may appear here”. So far I’ve never seen one which is probably more to do with the tiny amount of traffic this site attracts, than it’s world leading content.
On Ally Fogg, courtesy of Fran & Sylvie:
Writes with the pained urgency of a man who nailed his shoes to a soapbox but forgot to take them off
Last week’s BBC documentary on the police inquiry was old school: very balanced, very British, very fair – and all the more devastating for that. Hardly any witnesses had gone to the police, it told us. The one checkable fact in the stories of the handful that did was that the politicians had organised the murder of a boy in a hit-and-run accident. It was false.
Further to my comment above on the BBC’s Panorama programme, Deputy Leader of the Labour Party Tom Watson, who accused the late Leon Brittan of being “as close to evil as any human being can get” and wrongly accused him of rape and child abuse, has issued a grovelling apology:
Watson said on Friday that after his death in January, he should not have written that Lord Brittan was “as close to evil as any human being can get”. He said the phrase, which came from an alleged victim of child abuse, was emotive and he should not have used it.
Shape of things to come MasterofRhyme and your fellow Untrusted libellers ?
The Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, defended his deputy saying: “He does great work exposing some horrific activities, he should be congratulated for doing that.”
He didn’t say what these “horrific” activities are or whether they were less of more horrific than those of which the late Lord Brittan was accused.
And from Shatterface posting below the article:
It’s quite an achievement to make anyone feel sympathetic towards a former member of the Thatcher government.
And on the same thread from HermioneGingold:
by using parliamentary privilege to “name & shame” the innocent of the worst crime anyone could be convicted of calls into account his judgement.
And here he is on September 24, 2015 8:20 pm
bitey considers a 26 year old adult guardian to be allowed to abuse a 15 year old acceptable.
He doesn’t and never has, and you won’t find anything I’ve written to suggest otherwise. So I can expect you to follow Watson’s example?
Ann Tanner (AT42) who’s in paroxysms of delight over the parliamentarian Jeremy Corbyn gaining the Labour Party leadership has made a giant leap from her violent revolutionary position just a couple of years ago:
MsChin re that Guppy/ Johnson – after the revolution we need to shut down the Bullingdon club – its the stinking canker at the heart of British society. It symbolises precisely what is wrong with the public school system.
Ropes and lamposts? Too good for them!
Seems you’ve got an “ally in dismissing racism” shazthewombat, in Frog2222 who also seems to think a black man being called a nigga and a houseboy is so funny; (Hehe) he chortles, and the victim has no right to object:
Since then the BiteyCollective ( notably Paul) has insisted that he was a poor little person persecuted by the Evil UT
.Up to a year after Nap left after helping me in my Normandy orchard Paul was still inveighing against the Evil UT who had been nasty to him. Hehe ?
shazthewombat thinks I was lucky not to have been reported to the police for harassment in the past.
Well unlike shazzthewombat I’ve written about that issue here along with the evidence:
There are various accusations of stalking made against me recorded on the pages of this site, from scherfig, MontanaWildhack, MrsBurnout and others. The delicious irony of Montana’s accusation is that she has hosted a site displaying 400 plus comments about me and which quite rightly in the interests of free speech she’s allowed to remain. These were all on public display before I posted a single comment there. Many of them were the kinds of juvenilia you’d expect from a bunch of immature teenagers, some were vicious slurs and libels; others were threats of personal violence. Hardly any addressed the posts I’d made on CiF threads, a sufficient number of which attracted support and agreement from some of CiF’s most respected commenters. Most were straight abuse.
So maybe shazzthewombat you’ll display the courage of your convictions and run the risk of wasting police time. Better legal brains than yours have shied away from such action.
I would agree that there has been some ‘no-holds-barred’ debate on the UT, but no-one has resorted to the kind of tactics employed by BtH and some of the other commentators on his site.
And weren’t you the one who just couldn’t bring yourself to condemning the blatant racism of Turminderxuss calling a fellow UT poster a nigga? Oh yes here you are:
Paul – don’t do this again, please – don’t give a flying fuck about the language, but the last way I would describe turminder is a racist cunt. Wait for him to get back to you.
Are you still educating the nation’s young children Shazz?
To which the UT host replied:
Considering that you were the person who created MrsBird, it is the very definition of chutzpah that you would show up here and invoke that in your nasty little smears about ity. Are you really so stupid that you don’t realise that as administrators of this site, MsChin, thaumaturge and I all have access to the e-mail addresses and IP addresses from which posts originate and that we aren’t all perfectly aware now that it was you? You were very sloppy about it, you know.
Do go fuck off now. You haven’t got an ounce of credibility here.
Ever the sweetest mouth is Montana.
About the poster known as ity
Ity began posting here while I was in China for 2 months earlier this year and unable to access this site. When I returned and found several of his/her emails in the pending box I approved them. Later I discovered that ity had been the subject of an exchange between other posters here and on Montana Wildhack’s site. Later still I discovered his statement on that site that “it might be good to have a place where I can just walk in, vomit into someone’s face, and then walk out again…” That site still contains a false accusation of mental illness against someone who has been banned from posting there and as such has no means of addressing it or the denigration of those who do have problems with their mental health.
More recently, on 7/8 September ity made obscene, sexist posts about other posters here and I have modified these and removed the obscene and sexist statements. Anyone interested should imagine them saying the opposite.
The Guardian’s Anglo-Centric policy of closing comment threads based on when it considers the rest of the world who aren’t on GMT should be asleep, is a betrayal of those news organisations that really do produce round the clock news coverage and comments. Guardian USA, Guardian Australia? Only if you respect Islington time.
More news from the UT
And just to show that Montana Wildhack always holds a grudge:
i’m packing for antwerp (like you do!)
How on earth do you do that without being overcome with despair at the knowledge that your frumpy English wardrobe is going to look horrible amongst the beaux mondes of Antwerp?
How touching that Ms Wildhack has so little to occupy her that she finds Antwerp and its visitors so entrancing.
Doubtless those she considers her admirers will continue to ignore her.
The ignorance or deception of the trained and experienced barrister BeautifulBurnout never ceases to surprise me. She refers to the French barbarism in Vietnam as the country being “administrated by the French before the Yanks turned up”.
As the French proudly bombard ‘protectively’ in a North Africa it once owned and exploited, we remember the triple genocide in French Indochina. First, during the brutal racist occupation of Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia; second, as the Vichy French Colonial Army running its colonies for the Japanese Imperial Army aided the confiscation of rice for export to Japan while a million Vietnamese starved to death; third, as fresh French troops, brought back into Vietnam in U.S. ships, murdered Vietnamese for eight years, beginning almost immediately after the joyous street celebrations in Paris as it was liberated from Nazi occupation.
You read it here first – Imperialism – as – Administration courtesy of the UT’s barrister.
And of course it was all the fault of those Yanks.
Peter Bracken flogging a dead horse on the Untrusted site:
If I needed a reminder of the stupendous stupidity of some on here, I’ve been – well – reminded.
And later on the same thread:
Islamists don’t need a reason to retaliate. Indeed, they don’t retaliate. They just prosecute their implausibly demented agenda. Regardless.
Jeremy Corbyn – Darling of the Untrusteds – I don’t think so.
I was intrigued to know how relevant Corbyn had been in the history of the Untrusteds so I did a quick search of my extensive archives and discovered but one mention of the man by Backtothepoint below a Guardian article – Paris mayor candidate promises lush makeovers for ghost metro stations:
Why do the Groan keep calling the Parti de Gauche/Parti Communiste/Front de Gauche “far left”?
Would they call Austin Mitchell or Jeremy Corbyn “far left”?
If they need an explanation of the politics of these parties and alliance, they have my e-mail address and I’d be delighted to put them straight.
So Jeremy Corbyn is middle of the road?
Posting under a Kier Hardy election poster demanding among other things “Healthy Homes”, she writes:
07/08/2015 at 11:29 pm
‘For the anitpathetic lurkers: why the f00k do you actually care or even thing about what I say? I am a mere speck of dust in an endless universe. Or maybe you think I am more important than that? Weirdos.’
Strange how this mere speck of dust can be so attractive to those who wouldn’t notice it if it fell on their heads like an avalanche:
Here she is, “this mere speck of dust” on the Untrusted site in September 2009, bragging about her celebrity associations:
One of my claims to fame is that Lesley Ash and Lee Chapman were neighbours of mine for a few months in France and we kind of got to know one another, (although I was a tad shy at pushing it too much in case they thought I was only being friendly because of who they were as opposed to just being a nice person). She would never have put up with all that WAG shit though.
It was when Lee went out to play for the local team Niort just when they were relegated to french div 2, which was a disaster. It was Cloughie who eventually just phoned them up one night, cos they were so pissed off and in a rubbish block of flats and hadn’t been paid, and hauled them out of there. I ended up selling their telly and washing machine for them.
13 September, 2009 22:17
I think Lee Chapman used to be a famous footballer and Ms Ash an actor.
Such exalted company for a mere speck of dust.
BeautifulBurnout on the Tower Hamlets school girls:
We still don’t have any proof that they have actually gone to fight with or support ISIL either, Frog. As I mentioned the other day, the elder sister of one of the girls seemed to think they had gone off to try and find their friend and bring her back.
The BBC news today, 4 July, reported that two of the three girls, fully covered and with a woman carrying a gun, had been filmed out shopping in Syria.
The Untrusted’s Ann Tanner – (AT42) posts:
I supposed its the government I am ashamed of – and they (mis)represent us to the world. Their policies drag our name in the dirt and then ordinary people pay with their lives as they did in Tunisia today.
And I supppose she said the same about the 7 July 2005 London bombings when Blair’s (and Tanner’s) Labour Party was in government and Ken Livingstone was London Mayor?
Maybe she should attend a few of the funerals of those slaughtered so she can explain to the grieving relatives how Islamic terrorism is all the responsibility of successive Labour and Conservative government policies.
And just to prove how degenerate she’s become, here’s the UT’s resident barrister BeautifulBurnout in full agreement with the members of the homicidal child rapists of Islamic State –
What utter, abject bollocks of the first water, P-Brax. Point to one time – ONE TIME! – where I have found excuses for oppression or atrocity.
Well how about this apology for Nazi atrocities in occupied France, with her equating the massacre of the entire population of Oradour-Sur Glane in 1944, with the accidental deaths of civilians in Afghanistan by NATO aircraft.
“…you can’t possibly be so obtuse that you don’t understand the concept of compassion, so I’m going to have to believe at this point that you’re really just an arrogant bitch who can’t be bothered being nice to people you see as inferior.”
Backtothepoint, whose resentment at being born British sticks in his craw so much that whenever the opportunity arises he takes the opportunity to denigrate the country of his birth. Here he is decrying the retreat from Dunkirk that had it not happened, given the number of French people that supported Vichy France, it’s just probable that the planned German invasion of England would have gone ahead.
I thought it was the British who deserted their allies in wartime.
Or were they hurrying back from Dunkirk to get to grips with the Nazis in the Home Counties?
Notwithstanding that several French divisions were evacuated from Dunkirk in Operation Dynamo, he’s quite right about the UK’s Nazi sympathisers like Oswald Mosley, but they were rightly incarcerated for much of the the war, while many of BTTP’s elected countrymen were establishing the Nazi sympathising Vichy regime.
The appearance of Cageprisoners in the news over the past few days reminded me of this article by Rahila Gupta – Double standards on human rights in which Ally Fogg went to war with just about everyone over Amnesty International hosting Cage member Moazzam Begg.
A new set of photographs here, (Photographs 25) all of which have been posted before but they’re now together in one place.
When Putin took Crimea, I couldn’t remain silent, I felt too bad. People think this annexation is normal. They’ve been brain-washed. Most haven’t understood, they are too young. But those who, like me, lived as adults in the USSR, should be immune to such cynical, brutal propaganda.
To which Vincent Vassiliev replied:
may I recommend the Russian émigré website ‘enrussie.fr’,
from which can be found:
On February 27, 2015 Boris Nemtsov was assassinated in the street outside the Kremlin to intimidate Russian society. Sviatoslav Vakarchuk gave a concert in New York that day and has dedicated a song to this extraordinary Russian politician. A memorial march is now provided in the center of Moscow and at the center of Saint Petersburg.
And everyone else ignored.
Seems my previous entry below has ruffled a few feathers in Montana’s nest:
UT has been going for more than six years and has attracted well in excess of a million visits.
This in response to Jack Roth posting the 10,000 comment here.
All well and good but the UT was set up as a messaging site to cater for poster, whereas this place was designed to be a record of my time on Comment is Free. Post were only allowed because I failed to understand how to prevent them when initially editing the site. And the very first post was from the UT old-timer Dotterel to among other things express concern about my mental health. 🙂
Then on the few occasions that this place has been mentioned on CiF, apart from a couple of times when the posts slipped through the moderators’ net, the posts have almost immediately been censored. The same is not true of the UT which was able to advertise freely on YTU and even had some of it’s stars invited above the line. (MrsB, Montana, Martillo, Thaumaturge) Although some of them lived to regret the day they accepted the invitation.
“JackRoth is easy enough to ignore. For what feels like the 3 millionth time — the only people I have ever actually banned were Bitey & Sarah and I only did that because they were both aggressively trying to dominate and destroy this place.”
MontanaWildhack posted – 15 FEBRUARY 2009:
“I promise not to censor comments. Help me let people know that it’s here, okay?”
beautifullyburntout 19/02/2015 at 10:50 pm quoting Jack Roth’s earlier post:
“Accusing a certain poster of being a pedophile (or at least not disagreeing with the spurious allegations)”
Jack, dear. You really shouldn’t believe everything Bitey writes on his site. But even he will admit that the worst offence in his eyes is that, despite his incessant creepy stalkerish behaviour towards me, I should have some how run to his defence when others called him names but didn’t. And that is the foundation upon which is built an entire website.
Cut and paste that, pal. Off you go.
Not others Mrs B – but you. Here you are in December 2010
“I have no doubt in my mind whatseover that you will laugh your sad, paedo little socks off when you read this post, but I really couldn’t give a shit, scumbag. You will regret what you have said for far longer than I will be upset about it. You can bet on that.”
Now why would I want or need you to run to my defence when you’ve almost always been one of the attack mob, albeit a second rate one? I wrote about this tendency of yours to assume everything is always about you here. You should study it carefully.
I see BTTP’s / BB/CJ123’s favourite French man is back in the news. From the Independent:
Strauss-Kahn will appear in court with 13 other people. This includes a barrister, luxury hotel managers, freemasons, a police commissioner and “Dodo the pimp” – the owner of a chain of brothels. Such a line-up has got the French media buzzing. But this is not a watershed moment for French society.
The Untrusted’s dirty old man Dean Hancock (Dauntlessd) has responded and defended his appalling childish sexism:
“firstly .about my alleged perverted obsession with my cock and parts of the female anatomy. Old men who live alone in fields have been wailing at the moon since time immemorial. It’s sometimes no more than an expression of existential angst.
The awful truth is that the tedious state the prostate bit of my cock is now in means that my occasional rant about cunts/tits is no more than a celebration of joyful memories of things now long past”.
BeautifulBurnout / CalamityJane123 considers Dean Hancock (Dauntlessd) to be “an absolutely adorable, gentle, kind person IRL, and a real gentleman”.
She will all be remembered as a supporter and promoter of the most pathetic kind of dirty old man.
Rather tragic for one of the Crown’s barristers.
but the fact of the matter is that it is perfectly possible to lie on supermarket floors looking up selected ladies skirts and reach the conclusion that they might have special word order skills.
And dauntlessd, for all his naughty talk, is an absolutely adorable, gentle, kind person IRL, and a real gentleman
I’m sure you mean well, Paul, but Leni was definitely *not* a Pagan. Dauntless was at her funeral and can confrim this. This myth comes from a truncated post of Leni’s which a certain person cited. Her husband had carved a Welsh dragon for the local school and this was misinterpreted by the local vicar as a sign of non-Christian faith when poor Dicken passed away.
MsChin needs to do a little more research before shooting off about truncated posts. Here’s both the original and another in which Leni makes her attachment to paganism quite clear.
When my husband died the local vicar refused to officiate at his funeral service – on the grounds that D and I were Pagans.
His grounds for refusal ? D had carved a large dragon for the local school – this in Wales. The children still love the dragon.
afancdogge commented on What do you want to talk about?.21 Mar 2011 1:17am
hello. god and religion are not the same thing.
I have often wondered had we not adopted/had forced upon us the hard edged
religion of the desert but had developed a paganism based on the Earth and all
living things we – Europeans- might have been quite different beings.
Religious ideas were in the past very much rooted in landscape . Although
Pagans had quite a lot of nasty faults had the religion developed the
Enlightenment in Europe would certainly have been much different.
Would we be better or worse had we not been shaped by Christianity which
taught that suffering is good and that complaining – or protesting – on Earth
just might ruin our chances of eternal life. So accept everything that is
shovelled on top of you.
I think we are better off without all that – others disagree. These attitudes still
exist across society, not necessarily stated in religious terms but concepts such
as civil disorder or the challeging of authority are based on them.
In all seriousness, Bitey, I am surprised you haven’t written to Index on Censorship yet, concerning the closing-down of your primary source of material.
This is serious stuff. Your blog will die out all together if there is nothing to bitch about any more.
Thanks for the reminder MrsB and we’ve been there earlier.
Backtothepoint in holocaust denial mode:
The 6 million people weren’t gassed in concentration camps, but extermination camps, which aren’t the same thing at all. I’d agree that Israel doesn’t have extermination camps.
At least 1.1 million prisoners died at Auschwitz, around 90 percent of them Jewish; approximately 1 in 6 Jews killed in the Holocaust died at the camp.
I blame US schools for their refusal to teach children about Lafayette and Rochambeau or the fact that without the help of 300,000 French Resistance fighters and saboteurs, the Allies might well have been kicked back into the Channel in 1944.
300,000 when the population of France was around 40 million.
The official British history gives an estimated figure of 156,115 men landed on French beaches on D-Day.
Once that was achieved there was no way the Germans were going to kick anyone back into the Channel, with or without the contribution f the French resistance.
And it was the British Special Operations Executive that orchestrated a massive campaign of sabotage to be implemented by the French Resistance. The Allies developed four plans for the Resistance to execute on D-Day and the following days:
Plan Vert was a 15-day operation to sabotage the rail system.
Plan Bleu dealt with destroying electrical facilities.
Plan Tortue was a delaying operation aimed at the enemy forces that would potentially reinforce Axis forces at Normandy.
Plan Violet dealt with cutting underground telephone and teleprinter cables.
And the rest of the French population?
Vichy authorities were brought in to round up Jews and other “undesirables” such as communists and political refugees. Much of the French public initially supported the new government despite its undemocratic and pro-Axis policies, often seeing it as necessary to maintain a degree of French autonomy and territorial integrity.
The last Vichy exiles were captured in the Sigmaringen enclave by the French 1st Armoured Division in April 1945. Pétain was sentenced to death for treason, but this was commuted to life imprisonment. Only four senior Vichy officials were tried for crimes against humanity, although many more had participated in the deportation of Jews for extermination in Nazi concentration camps, abuses of prisoners and severe acts against members of the Resistance.
Theodore J. Crackel served as the Editor-in-Chief of the University of Virginia’s Papers of George Washington documentary editing project for six years. He was instrumental in beginning a process of digitization to make the papers more accessible to students and scholars.
….the whole battle for American independence was essentially a proxy war between Britain and France. To the French, America was nothing but another theater in their grand blood feud against Britain. They were all about making the Englishmen eat every last available dick, and since they noticed they could use the colonists’ struggle for independence as a handy feeding pen, that’s exactly what they did.
I am Welsh and don’t mind being called welsh of even ‘Taffy’. Unless the epithet ‘Jew’ (and not the revolting y*d) was accompanied by threats of violence there is surely nothing wrong?
I fully accept that Jewish people must feel intimidated by Jihadis as they are probably more likely to be attacked than others by this group.
Where does this former teacher and Labour Party leftist stalwart get such penetrating analysis from?
Backtothepoint posts about the EU’s £1.7bn demand:
Still if the UK wants to leave, it should take care not to let the door hit it in the jacksie as it flounces. As opposed to the Eurocrats who like to have the UK in the Union as a force for neoliberalism, most of the people I know here in France either couldn’t care less if it went or think it would be a good thing to get rid of a chronic troublemaker.
Clearly the English hating, trouble making lover BTTP is still smarting about every French failure from Agincourt on, but if he thinks the rest of Europe is going to be sympathetic to its crowing cockerel, he needs to explain the contempt in which its social democratic President is held across the union and in his adopted homeland.
Ally Fogg writes in his latest offering (more about this later):
Even if some really nasty, racist, homophobic EDL organiser was being subjected to the kind of systematic persecution campaigns that have been waged against Sarkeesian or Quinn I would unreservedly condemn them.
Yet while I have never posted anything that’s even a mildly abusive on his blog, and I have a complete record that I’ve copied here, at times Ally Fogg has descended to the most abusive in his responses to posters like me, who challenge his presumed hegemony.
I see Ally Fogg is greatly admired by Mike Buchanan.
And who is Mike Buchanan? He’s an anti-feminist woman hater, who I’m surprised, given Ally’s penchant for censorship, is allowed on his blog.
Whiny Feminists of the Month – Laura Bates, Caroline Criado-Perez, Harriet Harman MP, Jo Swinson MP…
Fortunately the judge had other ideas to those of Buchanan – Two people who subjected feminist Caroline Criado-Perez to abuse on Twitter have been handed jail sentences.
Gormless Feminists of the Month – Fawcett Society, ‘Clean Break’ theatre company, Eva Wiseman, Yvette Cooper MP, Jessica Valenti
Eva Wiseman writes in the Guardian:
We know that these misogynists, who sneer online or grope on trains or kill, do not exist in vacuums. They are formed by cultures that glorify violence against women, that tell men they’re owed sex, that contribute to that background hum every woman learns to block out – every woman learns, early, to be at least a little bit terrified. We’re right not to ignore the emails, threats and comments.
And here’s Ally Fogg’s view on a serious article “Women of Britain, let’s form our own feminist party” by Ellie Mae O’Hagan in yesterday’s Guardian.
Believe it or not, it already exists. It’s called ‘Justice for Men and Boys’ and I’m not going to link.
And what I assume he intends as some kind of smutty joke humour:
I’ll happily push a wheelbarrow and be milked for sperm.
And who is Mike Buchanan? He runs the Justice for Men and Boys website.
How in just a few years can Ally Fogg change from being one of the Guardian’s main male supporters of feminism to become an outright anti-feminist like Mike Buchanan?
Backtothepoint on the Hamas execution, without trial, of 21 Palestinians accused of spying for Israel:
Yes, that was disgusting. Sometimes Hamas can be almost as barbaric as Israel.
I wonder if he includes these Israeli teenagers who refuse to accept the draft, in his racist accusation?
Given his announcement that he intends to leave the Ecuadorian Embassy, it’s time to revisit the Julian Assange case. Here’s BeautifulBurnout giving her finest legal opinion at the time, ably supported by Backtothepoint:
“This whole business stinks to high-heaven which mirrors her judgement when the accusations were first made when she posted:
Call me a tinfoil hatter if you like (and I wish I could remember KT’s neoligism for it), but does anyone else believe this pile of steaming crap?”
Now claiming that an accusation of rape is “a pile of steaming crap” and “stinks to high heaven” doesn’t make someone a rape apologist, but it does rather undermine the excellent work this paper’s journalists (the Guardian) have done over many years to have the crime taken seriously, especially when it comes from a senior female member of the legal profession.
On the one hand we have big Pharma who only make significant investment in research that cures the rich world….
This on the same day that the UK’s Cancer Research reports:
The UK remains a world leader in cancer research, responsible for many of the breakthroughs that have reduced the impact of cancer. Death rates for four cancers, breast, bowel, lung and prostate, which account for half of all cancer deaths in the UK have fallen by almost a third since the early 1990s, new figures show.
Of course, as Anne Tanner tells us, only those in the rich world get these cancers and benefit from the medical breakthroughs that result from the research.
Shazzbot, who comes across an an octogenarian dog walker writes:
erm … knock-knock, Guardian staff?
You closed Thursday’s thread (without a 5-minute warning, tsk tsk) but
left the CIF home page link still leading toward it and not this one!
Sheesh. And you wonder why a good number of us BTL-ers believe you want shot of this thread altogether?
And this from someone who in outing two posters to the mods has done more than most to ruin what was once an excellent creation of the late Georgina Henry.
“Not sure what recreational mourning is – I was sad to hear of his death, especially as it appears he took his own life. This is because when I hear of the death of an individual, be it a homeless man in a doorway or someone famous I respond with sadness because I am a member of the human family. “
Is this the same Anne Tanner who readily argues for the violent overthrow of the capitalist ruling class who regularly quotes the Communist Manifesto…..
Society can no longer live under this bourgeoisie, in other words, its existence is no longer compatible with society.
….as if it were written last week and no one else has ever set eyes on it. Or this quote of her own…
If anyone needs hanging from a lampost more than Rupert Murdoch its this guy…
No idea who “this guy” is but she posted it on the UT three years ago.
Some family Anne Tanner.
Ally Fogg writes
I can see no significant moral difference between Paul Elam‘s satirical ‘Bash a violent bitch month’, misogynists’ so-called banter in the form of rape jokes and threats, or a feminist’s satirical ‘Kill All Men.’
Paul Elam satirical – do me a favour.
Here he is in a serious short story advocating that violence towards women is an appropriate form of retribution for women who “do men wrong” by leaving them for other men – “She deserved the ass-kicking of a lifetime”.
In the name of equality and fairness, I am proclaiming October to be Bash a Violent Bitch Month.
I’d like to make it the objective for the remainder of this month, and all the Octobers that follow, for men who are being attacked and physically abused by women – to beat the living shit out of them. I don’t mean subdue them, or deliver an open handed pop on the face to get them to settle down. I mean literally to grab them by the hair and smack their face against the wall till the smugness of beating on someone because you know they won’t fight back drains from their nose with a few million red corpuscles.
And then make them clean up the mess.
So there we have it, Ally Fogg defending violence against women, providing by his definition it’s satirical.
The other serious problem with ironic hate is that it quickly crosses over into ironic and studied indifference to real hatred.
“I say in my guidelines that if you’re a racist shite I won’t necessarily delete it, but I will call you for racist shite. And I will add that if you pull any crap like that on my blog again, nothing would give me greater pleasure than to ban your spiteful, racist little arse out of here faster than you can say boo hoo censorship….nothing would give me greater pleasure”?
Now is that real hatred or just pleasant banter?
While looking for something else in the archives I came across this little gem from Montana Wildhack about her motive for setting up the Untrusted blog, and a remarkably honest invitation, since rescinded:
As for comments that were made on the blog, I’m not responsible for what other people post there and I’m not going to pretend that people don’t sometimes use foul language and say things there that would be moderated here. But you know what, Bitethehand? It’s a public blog. There are no ‘subscribers’. The followers that are displayed there are people who have chosen to have the posts and comments e-mailed to them. You are perfectly free to post comments over there, yourself. It’s not a clique and comments aren’t moderated. You can call me anything you want. I won’t moderate it.
I think it might also answer a question raised on YTU recently about who first called the Untrusteds and hangers -on a clique.
A where are they now from Ally Fogg:
Surrounded by these braying patsies of the system, I feel more like Winston Smith. Politically I’m probably closer to Cyril Smith, but have a few pounds left to gain.
At a time when once again Tony Blair is being blamed for hundreds of years of internecine conflict within the Islamic world, it’s worth quoting the late PeterJackson commenting on Henry Porter‘s article – Labour must come clean about Iraq and spurn its Blairite legacy.25 Jul 2010 at 2:34pm:
“This excoriation of Tony Blair’s refusal to consult and single-minded decision-making comes rather oddly from Henry Porter, who wrote here in 2001, regarding the Afghanistan war:”
“The arguments against British involvement and Blair’s high profile are underlaid by an old-fashioned relativism which says that the liberties of the West have no higher moral value than the oppressive social customs and political tyranny of many Muslim countries. It is held to be merely a matter of cultural difference that women have so few rights under Islamic law, that welfare and education programmes suffer for the greater cause of male political establishments. I pointed this out to my friend, a feminist who campaigns tirelessly for the rights of women, but she was unpersuaded. What mattered to her was the offence to our democracy done by Tony’s Blair’s refusal to consult.
In this there is an enormous failure of faith and conviction. If liberal beliefs are to be overturned so easily, we might as well hand over the keys to all democratic institutions to the men from al-Qaeda. The point now is that we have to fight for what we hold dear, not mope around saying that this isn’t our war, while arguing weakly that we should try to understand a culture which refuses to allow women to show their faces and denies them and their female offspring education. The practices of some Muslim regimes aren’t just different; they are wrong.”
Leopold1904 dismissing the complaint of Lostgirl about being mobbed:
No none of it matters, cyber insults are all bollocks, unless they cross over into hate speech or slander in which case call in the law as well as the mods.
Well clearly some things do matter. Here he is defending Ally Fogg’s censorship, his admission that he reports comments to the moderators and his denial that the NUJ’s Code of Conduct has anything to say about journalists collaborating with the machinery of censorship.
To which thebadplus replied:
“The code states quite clearly that it’s members should never, even on pain of being imprisoned, assist in the the promotion of censorship.
A journalist shall at all times defend the principle of the freedom of the Press and other media in relation to the collection of information and the expression of comment and criticism. He/she shall strive to eliminate distortion, news suppression and censorship.
And sadly AllyF succombed to the temptation of protecting his reputation, rather than protecting freedom of speech.”
One of the tactics regularly employed by Backtothepoint is to make dubious comparisons that to the uncritical might appear quite reasonable. Here he is trying to portray the crime of paedophilia as being of as little consequence as breaking the speed limit, something vast numbers of drivers do every day.
First of all, the nature of the paedophile is not always dangerous. Don’t you think there are any who are attracted to children but know it would be wrong and so don’t act on it? For the rest, what evidence do you have that you can’t talk or educate them out of “it” – i.e. abusing children? Would you say you can’t talk or educate people who love speed out of acting on their desire to drive through town at a hundred miles an hour?
Emm .. so you equate speeding with child abuse ?.
CalamityJane123 / BeautifulBurnout issues grovelling apology for calling this poster a racist:
So clever to paint your opponent as racist rather than listen to what they are saying.
CJ – “The comments sections under articles like these are, however, swamped with people using Europhobia as a cloak for racism, bigotry and xenophobia – please accept my apologies that I grouped you in among them.”
An occasional “Where are they now” from scherfig on the censorship free Untrusted 12 June 2009:
It’s been fun, BTH, but sadly we must now part. I’ve grown bored with this game. I fear that we that shall joust no more on the hallowed pages of Cif. You are always welcome to pop into the refugee thread (as BTN or BTH, it doesn’t matter) – you can say what you want there, no deletions, no censorship, although honesty is very much appreciated. You’ll get a fair, if robust and perhaps ‘industrial’ hearing there. We’ve got lots of feminists and women as well! Cath pops in every now and again. You might like it. Anyway, best of luck, maybe see you in the other place.
Two days ago I quoted BeautifulBurnout:
I have to say I was utterly flabbergasted.
If telling fibs to get someone into bed is now akin to rape, not only have I been raped a good few times in my life, I have probably raped someone myself…
And today here’s the Guardian about the misogynist killer Elliot Rodgers:
Judging from the language Rodger used in his videos, he had been a follower of the pick-up artist (PUA) online community, which teaches men that they can and should trick and bully women into sleeping with them
An occasional “Where are they now” from HankScorpio and monkeyfish illustrating why they were both eventually banned from Comment is Free.
No, Geraldine, I’ve read it again, and it still makes no sense. Try re-writing it either(a)when you’re sober; (b) when you’ve mastered English; or (c) when you’ve matured beyond the stage of being a post-grad specialising in recycling Betty Friedan.
Seriously, it’s nonsense.
Sheffpixie in response to a disappeared post
don’t know about your looks but i suspect like her prose they are better than yours
@sheffpixie – you’ve already conceded you’re talking from a position of ignorance. And sexual desperation it would seem. She ain’t gonna shag you just because you ride along to her rescue like Lancelot with your helmet shiny.
Listen to Hank; I know, I speak from personal experience
And so BTTP and T’Xuss won’t feel they’re being picked on, here’s BeautifulBurnout also defending racism and the rapist:
I have to say I was utterly flabbergasted.
If telling fibs to get someone into bed is now akin to rape, not only have I been raped a good few times in my life, I have probably raped someone myself…
But what is truly abhorrent is the racist element of this. Had he lied about anything else except his “race” – and we are not really talking about race here, are we, but rather religion – he most certainly would not be in prison now.
I wonder where all the CifWatchers are, to defend this aberrancy?
This from someone who has regularly branded those who criticise adherents of the Muslim faith as racists.
Fortunately the late Peter Jackson was on hand to admonish her and others not only for defending the rapist but also of defending racism.
@BeautifulBurnout and others
The precedents used by the judge in the rape case, and details of the probable appeal, are in this piece from Haaretz. It wasn’t difficult to find, but I suppose it’s easier just to jump in before checking.
As for the rest of this piece, and Mya Guarnieri’s before it, there is a disturbing tendency to take disparate events and cases and cram them into a pre-existing narrative no matter how badly they fit. The narrative now has been escalated to deep-seated Israeli racism, which happily fits with Ms Shabi’s own hobby-horse of systematic anti-Mizrahi discrimination.
Occasional and timely “Where are they now” from Backtothepoint and TurminderXuss posting racist “jokes” on Ideas, 24 Oct 2013
My sister used to earn a good living as a go-go dancer.
Then all these Pole dancers came here…
Sikh and a Rabbi at a bus stop.
The Sikh says, ‘What time is the bus due?’
The Rabbi says, ‘Half past, raghead.’
I don’t know about T’Xuss, but Backtothepoint never grew out of the juvenile humour he learnt before getting expelled from Public School aged fourteen.
An occasional and timely* “Where are they now” from RapidEddie on an article by Bea Campbell – “Time to kick sexism out of football”:
I’m assuming this article will be followed by one from Harry Redknapp on gender theory.
* for those who don’t keep up with the game, Harry Redknapp is the manager Queens Park Rangers football club that’s appearing at Wembley today.
In light of the rise of UKIP, some past political analysis from the Untrusted:
Bitethehand from the Untrusted 5 Feb 2011 (posted before being excluded from that place)
BeautifulBurnout posting on CiF about Cameron:
And in the distance we hear the tinkle of glass as windows are smashed, the smell of woodsmoke as a religious building goes up in flames, the violence and hatred, the chants and the abuse of innocent members of society, and the leader of our great nation making public declarations on the international stage about an entire sector of our population who follow a faith different from “ours” being a source of unrest…
Yesterday we had Spencer equating Blair with Pincochet and today we have Mrs B equating Cameron with Adolf Hitler.
Has someone got inside your skulls and stolen your critical faculties?
An occasional “Where are they now” from Peter Bracken:
[W]here else… would you expect to go nowadays to find regular support for a theocratic regime that sponsors terrorism world-wide, kills gays, denies the Holocaust, and brutally suppresses any dissent?
Asks Mike Hartley. (Thanks Normblog)
Well, we know where. Just caught up on Milne’s latest deus ex west-hating dump.
The reason why Milne and his band of merry chumps don’t actually matter is because although they are heard (and have a right to be heard) no one within a gnat’s dick of sense listens to them, not anymore at least.
Literally, this coterie of historically illiterate, tyrant-apologists counts for nothing – precisely because they are historically illiterate, tyrant-apologists.
The psychology of their collective political dementia remains of some interest, however. And for voyeurs of the condition, Milne’s and his acolytes’ defence of Stalin, of the Taliban, of Milosevic, of the clerical puppet that is Ahmadinejad – of indeed any sentient being remotely anti-western – is a rich source of understandable if lamentable pleasure.
If only as a reminder of the stupendous folly and irrelevance of the man (and his disciples) may Milne propser.
An occasional “Where are they now” from MontanaWildhack
As for humble beginnings, who the hell cares what her beginnings were like if she uses her power to fuck over the poor and obtain more advantages for the already privileged? I’ll take a Tony Benn over a Caroline Flint any day. And you can sure as shit bet that Tony would never have posed for pictures in a form-fitting sheath dress and stiletto heels!
Tony Benn – Pipe Smoker of the Year Award 1992 – “thoughout his adult life, with his pipe, he’s been a voluntary figure head for the tobacco industry and many a young man and I dare say a few women have dabbled in the habit as a result.”
An occasional “Where are they now” from monkeyfish.
I could never make out why monkeyfish was so slavishly adored by the UT cabal when so much of what he wrote flew in the face of what they claimed to believe. In 2008 an article appeared in CiF which contained the following spot-on analysis:
The mockery, speculation, objectification and simple nastiness have been dealt out equally and unabatingly to Thatcher, Hillary Clinton and Cherie Blair. Indeed, I believe that Clinton’s campaign was brought down by misogyny, and misogyny only.
Fis, Barrel, shotgun…too easy Bidisha….or so I thought, until I saw this:
Clearly, ripping this atrocious piece to pieces would be a crime for which I would bear full responsibility. It couldn’t be that it’s just crap….that would be plain snobbery and elitism. Just as criticism of Palin is all about her gender; the appalling inarticulacy, abuses of power, fundamentalist nihilism, ignorance of a world outside Alaska and repressive stances on just about everything being a convenient smokescreen.
I now realise that however bad your writing has been, and may become in the future I must never criticise you for it. I’d just be using that as an excuse to attack you because of my ingrained misogyny and homophobia. I feel genuinely liberated Bidisha. Let me end by saying: a truly brilliant and insightful piece.
And people wonder why he was banned from CiF.
I missed this article at the time so will use this quote from the ever dependable sarka to respond:
Well Bidisha, these points have been made before, but your article is well worth it given that hate-fest against Palin goes on and on too. Of course you’re right, but as MaM points out, you will find few anti-Palinites willing to take the moderate, sensible line of saying that while they don’t like what she stands for politically, or particularly rate her political intelligence, the sheer vitriol directed against her is alarming, and the case against her, in psychoanalytical terms, very obviously “over-determined”
An occasional “Where are they now” from BeautifulBurnout / CalamityJane123 commenting on Nick Cohen’s – Why ‘leftists revolutionaries’ are not the best feminists 3 Feb 2013 4:26pm:
I am saddened that, of all people to choose to comment on what is a very serious matter, they should choose someone who is bound to make the fact of a rape allegation secondary to grinding his own axe.
This from the person who used the murder of Sabina Akhtar to grind her own axe.
An occasional “Where are they now” from TurminderXuss, Tybo and GrandpasBarn
anyone else think crimsontide99 is bitey talking to himself as XianChen?
Right through creepy and out the otherside…
TX I just reported Crimsontide as Bitey to the mods. Lets hope they lance the boil quickly.
GrandpasBarn 02 November 2011 2:47pm
I just reported Crimsontide as Bitey to the mods.
Bella ( or stand in ) How about an article on minding your own business please
An occasional “Where are they now” with a farewell post from Monkeyfish:
Following on from Ally Fogg’s plea for politeness and respect for others points of view, the debate rumbled on for some months until some sort of agreement was arrived at that was closer to his views than those of the chief abusers HankScorpio and Monkeyfish. Here’s the latter in flouncing off mood on 17 September, 2009 at 17:54
WTF has been going on here? Anyhow,looking forward to the official list of exemptees from this compulsary courtesy rule or are there no exceptions? Presumably BTH, a certain Finn, Tony Blair etc. could turn up and be welcomed with open arms? Just as long as they’re polite, eh? No worries.
Fuck this for a game of dead fish. I’m takin my ‘abuse’ elsewhere.
An occasional “Where are they now” with a quote from Backtothepoint …….
I like to point out to the Nazis-were-Socialists people that as the GDR, East Germany was both Democratic and Republican.
………and a response from 10jiao.
An occasional “Where are they now” with a quote from AllyF which to me demonstrates how innocent he was about the people who were the UT founder members. Small wonder he ducked out after a very short time.
Can I suggest we all try really hard not to let this blog become a place to attack / mock / gently tease other Cif regulars? (unless they’re here, of course, which is fair game)
The nature of this site is that there’s a real risk it could become a clique of like-minded souls which could then make it a bit exclusive and unwelcoming to those who happen by.
Seems to me a bit rude to be giggling about people behind their backs.
An occasional “Where are they now” with quotes from MontanaWildhack, founder of the Untrusted website:
Bitey’s little digs at me? Yes, the first few upset me — quite a bit. No woman would like to be called a bad mother by a complete stranger on an internationally read website. But I figured out fairly quickly that he’s just not worth it. I figured out that ignoring him is so easy as to be ridiculous. I take it he accused me of being an alcoholic fairly recently. Too funny, that. I don’t drink. (my emphasis)
Bought myself a 6-pk of Vermont cider tonight to indulge in some rare pissed posting with all of you. What time tomorrow should I start drinking it so that I’ll have a good buzz going at the same time the rest of you are around? Or should I save it ’til next Friday & start drinking as soon as I come home from work? (Had errands to run tonight and it’s already midnight for most of you. If I drink it tonight, you’ll all be sleeping by the time I’m buzzed.)
Well, I’m six hours behind you. If I start drinking tomorrow @ 3pm, my time/9 pm for you – will that put me about right? As infrequently as I drink, I figure I’ll start feeling buzzed mid-way through my second one. (See, if I do it this way — I won’t be drinking ‘alone’ even though I’ll be alone — right?) How many of you will be around tomorrow?
An occasional “Where are they now” quote from HankScorpio to his fellow Untrusteds
You should have banned Bitey a long time ago. You didn’t because you had some idealistic principles about liberty and censorship, and you never realised that you effectively censor others by giving him free rein to outing people as he did yesterday by linking to a Cif post from BB from three years ago
It’s shameful that he’s still allowed to post on here, peddling lies and abusing the rights of others.
And now you’re all gonna cold shoulder me by posting pictures of baby fucking seals because, what, my left-wing vision is a bit more left-wing than your left-wing vision which exonerates all of you from blame for where we are.
It’s both pitiful and cowardly.
The reference to me “outing” BB was a link I made to her article written under the pseudonym of Jane Nichol-Bell.
An occasional “Where are they now” quote from JimPress to Backtothepoint
After recently making such an arse of yourself by imagining a hoax Nelson Mandela memo on the supposed presence of apartheid in Israel was real, it would be a whole lot more dignified to keep your head down for a while when it comes to the politics of this particular region.
An occasional “Where are they now” quote from Peter Bracken
The adversarial nature of law makes everyone of you an ambulance chaser,BB. (BeautifulBurnout)
You’re in court to persuade a magistrate or a jury of the innocence of your client – and that means one of the lawyers is there to mislead.
I mean, both defence and prosecution can’t both be right.
It’s the temporary suspension of truth that affords you a living, not the truth itself.
So don’t get all sanctimonious with me. You don’t uphold the truth. You fuck about with it, until you win or lose.
An occasional “Where are they now” quote with even more from the late Leni Farrer this time on the UT:
I have grown accustomed to signing in only to discover I have joined a ste – not peopled by ordinary folk with a variety of opinions and interests but a shambling collection of idiots and mutterers who simply take up air space which could be more usefully employed by the thrusting soaring intellects of our critics.
An occasional “Where are they now” quote continuing with the late Leni Farrer
As pension age gets further put back we are going to find an increasing number of people – in late 50s and beyond who are left with an earnings gap – work related illness such as wear and tear arthritis will render them unfit to continue with heavy work, they will be deemed fit to work in lighter – but none existing jobs – forced through various hoops such as work fare.
The baby boomers – the oh so rich who lived a life of luxury – will of course be able to live off the millions they have accumulated by ripping off their children and grandchildren and generally taking the country to the cleaners.
An occasional “Where are they now piece” starting off with Chekhov, the UT’s resident cabbie in June 2010:
Monkeyfish/Alisdair Cameron; ain’t that the truth.
This site flourishes where Cif fails because it doesn’t have any wonks “moderating” the crap out of it
On the day Chekhov posted this gem there were 165 posts from 24 posters, two of whom have since died.